Burrowing 18month herman

[Jane/Teagan]

Hi
Asking for advice. Smeagol is an 18month old herman. He has taken to burrowing deep in his indoor enclosure. I have dug him up on 2 occasions as was concerned. I soaked him and he ate well. His weight is stable. He shows no signs of ill health.
He has now been buried since Sunday lunchtime. 3 days. Should I leave him or dig him up again?
I do feel mean doing it as was hoping he would surface on his own.
Jane

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hi
Asking for advice. Smeagol is an 18month old herman. He has taken to burrowing deep in his indoor enclosure. I have dug him up on 2 occasions as was concerned. I soaked him and he ate well. His weight is stable. He shows no signs of ill health.
He has now been buried since Sunday lunchtime. 3 days. Should I leave him or dig him up again?
I do feel mean doing it as was hoping he would surface on his own.
Jane

Hello!
As he's eating well, likely, he is not going to brumate (hibernate). Still such behaviour can be related to environmental parameters: overall lightning, humidity, temperature etc. Can you share some details about his enclosure (heating, lightning, temperature readings day/night)? I remember you were planning some changes.

 

[Jane/Teagan]

Hello!
As he's eating well, likely, he is not going to brumate (hibernate). Still such behaviour can be related to environmental parameters: overall lightning, humidity, temperature etc. Can you share some details about his enclosure (heating, lightning, temperature readings day/night)? I remember you were planning some changes.

Hi
I realised as soon as I posted initial question I had omitted yhe following.
The enclosure is 6x3 foot which is now fully enclosed with sliding perspex doors. It is lit with a central arcadia t5 that is on from 9am to 6pm and an arcadia 100w flood at one end which maintains an average basking temp of 34c.
There is also a 250w ceramic heater which is on a thermostat for nights for 20 to.22 degrees.
Humidity fluctuates from 74% to 85ish.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Hi
I realised as soon as I posted initial question I had omitted yhe following.
The enclosure is 6x3 foot which is now fully enclosed with sliding perspex doors. It is lit with a central arcadia t5 that is on from 9am to 6pm and an arcadia 100w flood at one end which maintains an average basking temp of 34c.
There is also a 250w ceramic heater which is on a thermostat for nights for 20 to.22 degrees.
Humidity fluctuates from 74% to 85ish.

Your parameters sound pretty goodhow are temps in the middle and ‘cooler’ end during the day?

I’ve gone back over your other thread, did you switch out those analog gauges for some digital monitoring? The analog disc ones aren’t the most accurate, did you get your two babies into separate vivs? Would love to see pics

 

[Jane/Teagan]

Yes I got 2 digital meters. The cooler end gis usually 20 -22 and middle area 26-29.
Split them originally but they both seemed distressed. Another forum member said she had kept her 2 together with no problems. So we decided to just monitor and split latter if needs be. My husband has already designed a new enclosure if needed.
So how long should I allow Smeagol to stay dug in? It's now 4 days. I was thinking if he doesn't emerge by lunchtime today I would get him out for a soak, dinner and weigh. Does that sound acceptable or should I knave him?
Jane

 

[Jane/Teagan]

Yes I got 2 digital meters. The cooler end gis usually 20 -22 and middle area 26-29.
Split them originally but they both seemed distressed. Another forum member said she had kept her 2 together with no problems. So we decided to just monitor and split latter if needs be. My husband has already designed a new enclosure if needed.
So how long should I allow Smeagol to stay dug in? It's now 4 days. I was thinking if he doesn't emerge by lunchtime today I would get him out for a soak, dinner and weigh. Does that sound acceptable or should I knave him?
Jane

The last two picture show the little bridge in the centre where he is digging in

 

[Jane/Teagan]

So I decided to dig him out after 4 day. Soaked, weighed and not lost any weight, still 106g and now eating well

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Yes I got 2 digital meters. The cooler end gis usually 20 -22 and middle area 26-29.
Split them originally but they both seemed distressed. Another forum member said she had kept her 2 together with no problems. So we decided to just monitor and split latter if needs be. My husband has already designed a new enclosure if needed.
So how long should I allow Smeagol to stay dug in? It's now 4 days. I was thinking if he doesn't emerge by lunchtime today I would get him out for a soak, dinner and weigh. Does that sound acceptable or should I knave him?
Jane

I know it’s hard, but I really would recommend separating, Herman’s can’t be given the best chance to thrive in a pair dynamic like this, tortoise of any species shouldn’t be housed in pairs under any circumstances, they’re incredibly territorial, behaviours that look cute to us really aren’t, following one another and sleeping huddled up is all bullying the the tortoise world, you’ll eventually see more extreme signs of aggression the older they get. Anyone who tells you pairs are fine, have no idea what they’re talking about, breeders unfortunately sell pairs too often.

Small groups are ok when there’s lots of land and the correct male to female ratio, this isn’t because they necessarily prefer the company, but because it doesn’t allow dominant behaviour to escalate into further aggression, a tortoise may well start following one tortoise, see another and start following them instead, that’s just one example. By nature tortoises are incredibly solitary animals, they only seek out to mate, then live primarily on their own. Have some species been documented hanging out in groups seemingly unbothered? Absolutely, but again this doesn’t mean they’re seeking out the company, rather than they are seeking out the environment in a particular hang out spot. Again this is group dynamics, not a pair. Pairs are completely unnatural, one will always be trying to compete for dominance, even if not to the naked eye, babies often stunt one another’s growth, or cause failure to thrive, this is often picked up too late, when you think everything is going fine, suddenly it isn’t. My point is, it’s not worth the risk to either tortoise, even if you don’t see out right aggression, this is an incredibly stressful housing situation, the stress is sometimes not easy to pick up on.

They will both go off food and seemingly pace during a transition period, this is very common and often discourages people going through with it, it’s not because they’re missing one another, it’s because they’re the kind of animals that get incredibly used to their living situation, right now they are in constant competition, when one disappears they can’t understand where the competition has gone and it throws them, they’re seeking out their rival. They do eventually settle though and live much healthier, happy lives for it.
At least you’ll have a set up ready

So I decided to dig him out after 4 day. Soaked, weighed and not lost any weight, still 106g and now eating well

aw this is great news!