Can you identify these guys?

[trabo]

We took in a couple torts from my daughter’s school for the summer. I think they were pretty neglected as babies since they are heavily pyramided and misshapen. We are giving them the good life though and they seem happy. Would like to learn more about their particulars but I don’t know what they are. Appreciate the insight!

 

[Markw84]

Desert tortoises. They can be quite territorial and combative if kept together.

 

[TammyJ]

Glad they are getting some proper care even for a short while. Keep them separate and give them long daily soaks. Poor guys. It's quite sad to see that so many "school" tortoises are badly kept.

 

[wellington]

So very sad that schools think they should keep animals and all they do is teach how to neglect them
Please do not let the school have them back. They were badly neglected as they look to possible have slight MBD.
They need to be living outside in separate areas with a heated night box for colder nights.

 

[Yvonne G]

Desert tortoises belong to their native state ( in this case California) and are protected by law. Their status in the wild is 'threatened.' It's a real shame that these precious tortoises have been so badly cared for. It's ok for private parties to have legally adopted them, but they still belong to the State of California, and the teacher needs to apply for a permit to keep them.

Please do lots of research about them, heavy on their protected status, and print it out for the teacher. Give it to her/him when you return the tortoises. Also, go to the California Turtle and Tortoise Club's site and print out the permit info for the teacher. Hopefully they realize it's a lot of trouble to have to go through and they allow you to keep the tortoises.

 

[trabo]

Thanks for the info everyone. They have been together for quite a while and I’ve never seen them exhibit any aggressive behavior. Pretty chill little torts so far. We’ll continue to give them good care and I’ll definitely do some research on the permitting situation.

Since you’re all here, I have two baby sulcatas in a very nice 4x8 enclosure in the house complete with basking areas, heat lamps and humid enclosures. Since these desert torts are bigger, they have been outside in the sun/heat/shade. Is there any obvious difference between the sulcatas and the desert torts that would indicate I need to think about the desert torts differently? Thanks again.

 

[wellington]

You need to separate each tortoise into its own enclosure, you sulcatas too! You are not seeing the bullying because you don't know what to look for and the fact that just being together is very stressful on them. There are many years of tortoise knowledge on this forum and many threads on why tortoises should not be kept in pairs!
You are caring for them in the same stressful way the school did.
Tortoises do not live together. They see another tortoise and it's territory battle on. They only want another tortoise when it's time to breed.
Do they follow each other?
Does one lay on the food dish if there is one?
Does it try to stop the other from getting into the hide, if there is one? Or sleep at the entrance? All signs of bullying, among others.

 

[trabo]

You need to separate each tortoise into its own enclosure, you sulcatas too! You are not seeing the bullying because you don't know what to look for and the fact that just being together is very stressful on them. There are many years of tortoise knowledge on this forum and many threads on why tortoises should not be kept in pairs!
You are caring for them in the same stressful way the school did.
Tortoises do not live together. They see another tortoise and it's territory battle on. They only want another tortoise when it's time to breed.
Do they follow each other?
Does one lay on the food dish if there is one?
Does it try to stop the other from getting into the hide, if there is one? Or sleep at the entrance? All signs of bullying, among others.

Thanks. I am familiar with the arguments for separating torts. I was sold two sulcatas in a glass box with a red light by a pet shop. Came here, discovered tom’s thread and immediately built a 4x8 enclosure for them with heat and humidity. I have not seen any of these behaviors and I watch them closely and have them on camera 24/7. I will continue to monitor them as they grow and separate when they exhibit any aggressive behavior.

I have spoken about the opinions on this thread in great detail with multiple shop owners and there is definitely some disagreement. I am on the fence with many of these things and will remain humble and appreciate multiple perspectives. In reference to the pairing I do have a personal suspicion that tortoises who are kept together from birth may cohabitate successfully and peacefully. Mine eat together, share space under the heat/UVB lamps. They aren’t in the wild. I’ve seen lions with labradors as friends. I would fully expect a single tortoise to be greatly hostile to one transplanted into its familiar space after time alone. That said I take all of what you say seriously and will be sure to keep my little torts safe and happy. I appreciate the insight always.

 

[Tom]

Thanks. I am familiar with the arguments for separating torts. I was sold two sulcatas in a glass box with a red light by a pet shop. Came here, discovered tom’s thread and immediately built a 4x8 enclosure for them with heat and humidity. I have not seen any of these behaviors and I watch them closely and have them on camera 24/7. I will continue to monitor them as they grow and separate when they exhibit any aggressive behavior.

I have spoken about the opinions on this thread in great detail with multiple shop owners and there is definitely some disagreement. I am on the fence with many of these things and will remain humble and appreciate multiple perspectives. In reference to the pairing I do have a personal suspicion that tortoises who are kept together from birth may cohabitate successfully and peacefully. Mine eat together, share space under the heat/UVB lamps. They aren’t in the wild. I’ve seen lions with labradors as friends. I would fully expect a single tortoise to be greatly hostile to one transplanted into its familiar space after time alone. That said I take all of what you say seriously and will be sure to keep my little torts safe and happy. I appreciate the insight always.

What you are looking for isn't the problem. You are not likely to see overt aggression from little juveniles. We aren't talking about overt aggression.

Imagine being locked in a room with someone that hates you and wants to do you harm, and they are bigger and scarier than you are and could start beating you anytime they felt like it. That person wouldn't have to "do" anything for you to look over see them and feel terrible stress and anxiety in your gut. Imagine giant aliens watching the two of you in your cell and remarking, "Well, they aren't biting or kicking each other, so they must be fine." Meanwhile your cell mate is giving you the stink eye, again, and not even saying a word, but you know what is coming...

Raising big cats with dogs is something I am personally familiar with. It is done to keep the wild animals calmer because their "boss" is calm in a given situation. As the cat matures and gains size, it doesn't always work out. In any case, this example does not pertain to solitary reptiles of the same species.

You are making a mistake and in time, after the damage is done, you will realize this. We are trying to prevent that damage. We aren't making this up from thin air for fun so that we can argue with you. Pairs are a problem. Groups can work, but not pairs.

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