Cherryhead UVB Question

[TheWaveCarver]

Hello everyone,

I'm a new owner of a 3inch Cherryhead. I've got an enclosure that is 6 feet by 2 feet by 12 inches tall. I have two incandescent 100W incandescent bulbs lighting and heating during the day. I have two CHEs for night. This keeps the enclosure at 79 - 83 Degrees in all areas both night and day.

Humidity hovers from 70 to 91% depending on location... I have coconut coir that goes 3 inches deep. I dump about 5 cups of luke warm water into it every 4ish days to keep the substrate wet. I have a hide for the tortoise.

So the final thing I believe I have to get right is the UVB. I have a 4 foot UVB T5 HO fixture. I have this centered on the enclosure length wise, but it currently sits on the very edge of the enclosure... so to visualize this, it's sitting right on the 6 foot long edge...

This creates a gradient UVB index of 6.0 directly under it that dissipates to 0 on the opposite side. I'm using an Arcadia 12% but I also have a Reptisun 5.0.

So I have a few different configuration options... right now I'm running the Aracdia 12% for 4 hours in the middle of the day because it's really bright with all the incandescents but I'm worried about the gradient being too strong since I can't really center the fluorescent fixture.

What's the best solution here? Center the T5 fixture with a 5.0 and only use CHEs and run the T5 all day?

Or run the higher output 12% UVB for 4 hours with incandescents always on for the day (Or I could shut the incandescents off when the UVB fluorescent is running?). I have a lot of options but can't figure out the best.

 

[TheWaveCarver]

***NOTE*** I do have a UVB Solarmeter.

Here is a live link of the enclosure. Lights probably shutting off soon so just rewind to when the lights were on to see the enclosure. UVB is off currently.

 

[TheWaveCarver]

Now that I'm home. Here is an image of my current setup. Currently the fluorescent T5 HO fixture has a 12% arcadia. Its setup to turn on from 12PM to 3PM. The dual dome fixtures each have a 100W daylight incandescent and a 100W Ceramic heat emitter for at night. I've covered the tops of the enclosure to preserve humidity... which involved cutting up some PVC pond liner, surrounding the hot spots with aluminum foil and then using painters tape. Given the location of the T5 HO fixture... there is a UV index of 6 directly under quickly dropping to around 1.5 to 3 on angle... and settling at 0-0.5 on the opposite side of the enclosure.

 

[Minority2]

Now that I'm home. Here is an image of my current setup. Currently the fluorescent T5 HO fixture has a 12% arcadia. Its setup to turn on from 12PM to 3PM. The dual dome fixtures each have a 100W daylight incandescent and a 100W Ceramic heat emitter for at night. I've covered the tops of the enclosure to preserve humidity... which involved cutting up some PVC pond liner, surrounding the hot spots with aluminum foil and then using painters tape. Given the location of the T5 HO fixture... there is a UV index of 6 directly under quickly dropping to around 1.5 to 3 on angle... and settling at 0-0.5 on the opposite side of the enclosure.

The hole you made is too small to contain the entire output of both the bulb and the ceramic heat emitter. The fixtures are also suspended too high. This means you have two fairly large and expose areas for heat and humidity to escape from. This will cause ceramic heat emitters and misters to run longer than they are supposed to. Personally I think your setup is using a lot more fixtures than it really requires.

The height of the box is only 12 inches. Use a much lower wattage (30-60) incandescent flood light bulb and pair that with a 10.5 inch brooder lamp, not a dual dome. Keep the basking lamp away from your main hide box. Some Red foots bask, some do not. Keeping a basking lamp by the main hide box may lower their activity levels due to being exposed to high temperatures.

Position a single 100w ceramic heat emitter towards the middle length of the enclosure. Again, use a brooder style fixture, not a dual one. Pair a thermostat to keep the mister and ceramic heat emitter running when needed.

Place your t5 UVB fixture as close to the middle (width wise) as possible. I would leave this uvb on for 12-14 hours because you can't rely on a tortoise stay near the UVB fixtures during the three hour window you give to him or her. Wattage requirements would definitely be lower than to have 2 100w bulbs on at all times.

Redo your top cover. Leave enough opening to allow your brooder and t5 hood fixtures to rest on top of the lid without falling into it. Here is an example of someone using plastic film instead of aluminum foil. Notice how the cutout sections are taped and that there are no large exposed open holes:
https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/tweaks-on-my-closed-chamber.70057/

10.5 inch brooder style lamp:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-300-Watt-10-1-2-in-Brooder-Clamp-Work-Light-HD-303PDQ/204684496

Reptile heating panels are also a very good alternative to ceramic heat emitters. They're larger and you can mount them closer to the walls of the enclosure if you wish to give yourself more room on top work with:
http://www.reptilebasics.com/80-watt-radiant-heat-panel

 

[TheWaveCarver]

The hole you made is too small to contain the entire output of both the bulb and the ceramic heat emitter. The fixtures are also suspended too high. This means you have two fairly large and expose areas for heat and humidity to escape from. This will cause ceramic heat emitters and misters to run longer than they are supposed to. Personally I think your setup is using a lot more fixtures than it really requires.

The height of the box is only 12 inches. Use a much lower wattage (30-60) incandescent flood light bulb and pair that with a 10.5 inch brooder lamp, not a dual dome. Keep the basking lamp away from your main hide box. Some Red foots bask, some do not. Keeping a basking lamp by the main hide box may lower their activity levels due to being exposed to high temperatures.

Position a single 100w ceramic heat emitter towards the middle length of the enclosure. Again, use a brooder style fixture, not a dual one. Pair a thermostat to keep the mister and ceramic heat emitter running when needed.

Place your t5 UVB fixture as close to the middle (width wise) as possible. I would leave this uvb on for 12-14 hours because you can't rely on a tortoise stay near the UVB fixtures during the three hour window you give to him or her. Wattage requirements would definitely be lower than to have 2 100w bulbs on at all times.

Redo your top cover. Leave enough opening to allow your brooder and t5 hood fixtures to rest on top of the lid without falling into it. Here is an example of someone using plastic film instead of aluminum foil. Notice how the cutout sections are taped and that there are no large exposed open holes:
https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/tweaks-on-my-closed-chamber.70057/

10.5 inch brooder style lamp:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-300-Watt-10-1-2-in-Brooder-Clamp-Work-Light-HD-303PDQ/204684496

Reptile heating panels are also a very good alternative to ceramic heat emitters. They're larger and you can mount them closer to the walls of the enclosure if you wish to give yourself more room on top work with:
http://www.reptilebasics.com/80-watt-radiant-heat-panel

I made most of the changes that you mentioned above. I removed one of the fixtures so now the entire setup consists of a single 100W incandescent, CHE and UVB fixture. This has allowed me to seal the entire top and achieve a desired temperature and humidity gradient.

I assume if I center the T5 HO fixture width-wise that the Reptisun 5.0 is a better fit than the Arcadia 12% T5 HO? The bulb sits 12 inches away from the substrate... but it only achieves a UVB index of 6.5 maximum at the center which dissipates to 2-3 on the sides. The Reptisun 5.0 is closer to around 0.1 to 0.5 on the edges and alittle over 1 directly underneath the bulb.

I just want to make sure the little guy is getting enough UVB without hurting him. Is less or more UVB worse in this situation? Thanks!

EDIT: Just attached an updated picture. And a picture of the inside of the enclosure... with my foggers running at 25% capacity I can achieve a humidity level of 90%+. I plan on moving the hide to the other side so that its not directly underneath the basking light (Which isnt a flood light just a 100W regular bulb) .

 

[Gillian M]

Welcome to the forum.

 

[Minority2]

I made most of the changes that you mentioned above. I removed one of the fixtures so now the entire setup consists of a single 100W incandescent, CHE and UVB fixture. This has allowed me to seal the entire top and achieve a desired temperature and humidity gradient.

I assume if I center the T5 HO fixture width-wise that the Reptisun 5.0 is a better fit than the Arcadia 12% T5 HO? The bulb sits 12 inches away from the substrate... but it only achieves a UVB index of 6.5 maximum at the center which dissipates to 2-3 on the sides. The Reptisun 5.0 is closer to around 0.1 to 0.5 on the edges and alittle over 1 directly underneath the bulb.

I just want to make sure the little guy is getting enough UVB without hurting him. Is less or more UVB worse in this situation? Thanks!

EDIT: Just attached an updated picture. And a picture of the inside of the enclosure... with my foggers running at 25% capacity I can achieve a humidity level of 90%+. I plan on moving the hide to the other side so that its not directly underneath the basking light (Which isnt a flood light just a 100W regular bulb) .

View attachment 252228 View attachment 252229

here is a post from @Markw84 that does a very good job in answering your concerns about UVB:

The part of the process used to create Vitamin D3 that requires UVB happens extremely quickly in the skin. A matter of minutes with proper exposure. The conversion of that "pre-D" into D3 actually takes much longer but only requires heat. So most basking time is actually for heating the skin. The skin will not produce more D3 than is needed - so no overdose can occur by this natural process, and as long as the UVB is not too intense to cause other problems, like eye irritations, etc, it is not a problem. D3 also remains available in the body for a few weeks, so periods of 2-3 weeks with no UVB is not a problem if there is normally adequate UVB available. Keep in mind if you are providing adequate UVB and THEN add D3 supplements, you can overdose. The skin productions will not overdose as it self regulates, but too much ingested D3 on top of that can.

I personally like the brighter, more intense HO 12.0 UVB tubes to simulate a bright mid day basking. However, I limit it to just 4 hours by timer. The incandescent flood lamp I use for basking heat is on 14 hours along with a double T-8 6500K fluorescent (without UV) for lighting. Since I adjust my UVB to provide about 2.5 UV index at tortoise basking areas, I personally don't like the UVB on more than the 4 hours. A lot of the year, they are outside when the UVB would be on so they are not even in the indoor enclosure when the UVB is on.

I never supplement D3 other than the little amounts in the Mazuri and Rep Cal foods I offer a few times a week on top of the greens.

I would stick with the Arcadia 12% and use the Reptisun 5.0 as a temporary backup for when you don't have any spare 12% bulbs lying around. You should also swap out the resin water dish you currently have for a plant saucer that can be submerged into the substrate to make it easier for your tortoise to climb in and out. Some people will put pebbles inside their water dishes to prevent possible drowning. I myself just use less water. I find it much easier to clean and replace the contents of a water dish without having to sift through pebbles and poo.

What is the basking spot temperature? I'm pretty sure you can use a much lower wattage basking bulb than 100w to reach 90-95F.

 

[TheWaveCarver]

here is a post from @Markw84 that does a very good job in answering your concerns about UVB:



I would stick with the Arcadia 12% and use the Reptisun 5.0 as a temporary backup for when you don't have any spare 12% bulbs lying around. You should also swap out the resin water dish you currently have for a plant saucer that can be submerged into the substrate to make it easier for your tortoise to climb in and out. Some people will put pebbles inside their water dishes to prevent possible drowning. I myself just use less water. I find it much easier to clean and replace the contents of a water dish without having to sift through pebbles and poo.

What is the basking spot temperature? I'm pretty sure you can use a much lower wattage basking bulb than 100w to reach 90-95F.

Thanks for the reply. My basking temperature is currently around 90 to 95 directly under the light, I dont mind sticking with the 100W bulb for now. I'll look into the water dish swap as well.

Is Markw84's post above for a Redfoot or Cherryhead tortoise? I've read Redfoots and Cherryheads don't like too much light, 2x 6500K fluorescent seems like alot of light haha. I'd like to minimize the number of openings in the top as well... so I could add a second fluorescent but would prefer to stick to a single fixture. So maybe just run the Arcadia 12% for all 12 hours of the day? I could switch it on for only the 4 hours in the middle, it would just be significantly brighter for those 4 hours.

Quick Edit: Basically... is there any harm to the Cherryhead tortoise in just running the Arcadia 12% for all hours of the day? Markw84s post above leads me to believe there's not. Could this damage the tortoise's eyes?

 

[Minority2]

Thanks for the reply. My basking temperature is currently around 90 to 95 directly under the light, I dont mind sticking with the 100W bulb for now. I'll look into the water dish swap as well.

Is Markw84's post above for a Redfoot or Cherryhead tortoise? I've read Redfoots and Cherryheads don't like too much light, 2x 6500K fluorescent seems like alot of light haha. I'd like to minimize the number of openings in the top as well... so I could add a second fluorescent but would prefer to stick to a single fixture. So maybe just run the Arcadia 12% for all 12 hours of the day? I could switch it on for only the 4 hours in the middle, it would just be significantly brighter for those 4 hours.

Quick Edit: Basically... is there any harm to the Cherryhead tortoise in just running the Arcadia 12% for all hours of the day? Markw84s post above leads me to believe there's not. Could this damage the tortoise's eyes?

6500k is closer to natural sunlight. The T8 bulbs @Markw84 mentioned is not the UV kind. He's just using them regularly lighting. You can install a dual florescent fixture with separate on/off switches and or plugs and have the UVB on for 3-4 hours and the regularly non-UV bulb on for 14 hours. Non-UV florescent bulbs are cheaper. Some people do this. I too prefer smaller openings so I haven't gotten around to trying this myself.

Florescent strip long-tube styled bulbs like the Arcadia 12% and Reptisun 5.0 are safe. Overexposure will not harm them. Just like the sun, tortoises will only take it what they need. No worries there.

 

[TheWaveCarver]

Final setup unless I receive other suggestions:

-100W Incandescent
-100W CHE (Ceramic Heat Emitter)
-46 Inch Arcadia 12% Bulb (3-4 Hours)
-46 Inch 6500k Bulb (All 12 Hours)

NOTE: Im using two Zoomed 46inch fixtures positioned with their bulbs closest

Other setup info:
-Two Humidifiers Running at 25% Load... Distilled water that expels above food to keep it fresh... and near hide
-Two Temperature Sensors
-Hide Box Opposite Heat Source
-85-90 Degrees Max tapering down to 75-72.5 Degress on the edges of the enclosure

Please let me know if there are any other suggestions. Here is a livefeed:

 

[TheWaveCarver]

So I pulled the covers off my box a 6 x 3foot, small greenhouse over the whole enclosure. My temps are now between 87 and 93 without any CHEs. The fluorescent lights heat the enclosure because of the greenhouse. I use a CHE at night and it drops to 85 to 90ish.

Are these temps okay for a Cherryhead Tortoise? The humidity is 90%+... I really don't want this guy to pyramid.

 

[TheWaveCarver]

After reading more about tortoise enclosures, here is my final setup for anyone curious to see the evolution. I ditched the wooden Tortoise house because of the mold and purchased a stock tank. Then I placed a greenhouse over the stock tank. I also bought a pond liner underneath the whole setup, then put towels underneath the pond liner around the perimeter to keep water from flowing out underneath the greenhouse.

I have an Arcadia 12.0 UVB that about 10 inches off the ground, a 5200K light and two 60W ceramic heater on thermostat that keep temps around 84F. Two foggers running on low. Finally, there is a grow light mounted outside the enclosure (it gets too hot inside the greenhouse otherwise).

I planted the following plants:
Wandering Jew
Spider Plant
Asparagus Fern
Parlour Palms

Livefeed of enclosure: