COMMON NAMES

[yagyujubei]

It's kind of a pet peeve of mine that people seem to prefer common names for their tortoises rather than the correct scientific name.
I see all the time spurred, spur thigh used, and then the inevitable response : Do you mean Sulcata, or Mediterranean? Lately, I see Steppe Tortoise being used as an alternate for Horsfields. Is Russian no longer in fashion? Personally, I don't get it. It simply adds to the confusion. Russian tortoise, Afghan tortoise, Afghanistan tortoise, steppe tortoise, central Asian tortoise, four-toed tortoise and Horsfield's tortoise are all common names for basically the same animal. Do we have to learn them all just to avoid confusion? I'm sure in some places, they're known simply as "food" OK, rant over.

 

[GBtortoises]

"Steppe" tortoise has been used as a common name for them probably longer than "Russian" tortoise has. So has "Afghan" and "Horsfield" tortoise. Much of the older literature, prior to the 90's, refers to them as Steppe, Afghan or Horsfield tortoises rather than Russian.
Most of their wild range encompasses more of just about every country except Russia!

I'm a fan of using scientific names rather than common names, much less confusing!

 

[acrantophis]

For many years I bred and sold poison dart frogs. I sold many frogs to Europe and asia. You only use scientific names in this case. Common names are often used incorrectly. Scientific nomenclature cuts out the confusion. Also, I feel that if you own an animal you should know a bit about its natural history.

 

[Q'sTortie]

I am definitely a victim of name confusion, especially with the Russians and Sulcata. If we all went the scientific route it would definitely get rid of the confusion. But for the newbies that join the forum they will have no idea what species is being talked about. I definitely don't know all the scientific names, all I learned were the names for my tortoise and the few I'm interested in.

 

[Madkins007]

This is a debate that happens in any community discussing living things, from ants to zebra lilies. No one has ever found a perfect answer- lots of less common things don't have common names, some common names vary by region or have become 'faddish' (you see this pop up every so often. My favorite example is when the bullsnake suddenly became the pine gopher snake for some stupid reason) and so on.

However... if we DID go with all scientific, you already know we would have about the same level of confusion. Nomenclature changes and newbies alone would cause problems, and the more we did it, the more confusing searches would get.

It is already hard enough to search for stuff on red-footed tortoises. You get different results for redfoot, red-foot, red-footed, Geochelone carbonaria, Chelonoidis carbonaria, morrocoy, jabuti, etc. Even if we magically got everyone to agree on one of them right now, there are millions and millions of pages already out there using the other names.

 

[Tom]

The two examples listed are the most common ones. "Russians" and "spur thighs". They've been called Russians by everyone I know since the mid 80s. Seems so silly since it is not even correct. The one that really chaps my hide is the whole turtle/tortoise thing. I know, I know, all the technicalities.... Horses and are both equine mammals, but nobody calls a zebra a small striped horse. And darn it! A tortoise is a different animal than a turtle!

Personally I prefer Latin names too, but I wish the scientists would leave well enough alone. I am still trying to re-learn all my Central and South American cichlid genuses. What was wrong with Cichlasoma? And sulcatas and leopards will ALWAYS be Geochelone, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[acrantophis]

The two examples listed are the most common ones. "Russians" and "spur thighs". They've been called Russians by everyone I know since the mid 80s. Seems so silly since it is not even correct. The one that really chaps my hide is the whole turtle/tortoise thing. I know, I know, all the technicalities.... Horses and are both equine mammals, but nobody calls a zebra a small striped horse. And darn it! A tortoise is a different animal than a turtle!

Personally I prefer Latin names too, but I wish the scientists would leave well enough alone. I am still trying to re-learn all my Central and South American cichlid genuses. What was wrong with Cichlasoma? And sulcatas and leopards will ALWAYS be Geochelone, as far as I'm concerned.

You said it! I have learned and relearned all the south, and central American cichlids. As well as all the Africans too. I liked cichlasoma and haplochromis. corn snakes were elaphe not pantherophis. For that mater geochelone was chelonidis when I first got into herps!

 

[Len B]

I remember the first 4 toed tortoise I was able to get, back then they were as elusive as a blue tongue skink,(because of the cold war and Australia's export laws). It took a long time for me to realize that the 4 toed and horsfield were the same species because there were very few in the US at that time, but more started showing up in the years to come. Also I had a shipment come in from South Africa in the early 70s that had as a gift some African Garter snakes, which I had never had any dealings or heard of, so I had to check them out without the advantage of the internet, books were the best source and there were not as many reptile books available then as today, they are venomous to certain extent. Common names don't really bother me to much but it does help to have an idea what country the animal is from.--The Internet is a great tool-- I still don't like Latin.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

First "Russians" I bought, about 1990, were sold as "European Box Turtles" and were in an aquarium w/ about 1-1/2" of water...pet shop owner told me that they wouldn't eat turtle food and that he was tired of them dying on him, the first dozen by drowning within a day to him recieving them...anyway, hesold me the remaining 3 (luckily, 1 male, 2 females) to me at cost ($35 for all three)...told me if I wanted more, to come back in a week.

Wasn't sure what they were, exactly, other than resembling Hermann's and Iberian tortoises, but recognized that what they weren't were box turtles (European or otherwise )...got out my books and finally figured out that they were Horsfields/4-Toeds (Testudo horsfieldii), while they VERY enthusiastically started munching on some collard greens, which seemed to be much more to their liking than Hartz Mountain Turtle Food...a week later, I went back and picked up the next (and last) dozen "European Box Turtles" he got in...kept the females, sold the males to other tortoise loving members of the NTHS for a reasonable mark-up.

BTW, my other pet peeve is calling Python regius a "Ball python", rather than a "Royal python"...

 

[JeffG]

It can be very frustrating at times, but after dealing with this issue for many years, I basically just shrug my shoulders. When you really know what you are talking about, you know ALL the common names, and the scientific names too. It is usually most frustrating when you are dealing with people who DON'T know all the different names. I just consider it a way to learn how much the person I am talking to knows.

 

[ALDABRAMAN]

It can be very frustrating at times, but after dealing with this issue for many years, I basically just shrug my shoulders. When you really know what you are talking about, you know ALL the common names, and the scientific names too. It is usually most frustrating when you are dealing with people who DON'T know all the different names. I just consider it a way to learn how much the person I am talking to knows.

My thoughts also!

 

[Jacqui]

I prefer the common names normally, not just because then more folks know what your talking about, but mainly because I can never remember how to spell the scientific names.

 

[Yvonne G]

A few months ago we were talking about Russian tortoises on another thread and we wondered, because the forum is becoming so popular, and because almost any "tortoise" search you do comes up with references to our forum, we wondered if we, the forum, were big enough or popular enough that if we started calling Russian tortoises something else, how long would it take to catch on. So from that moment, I've been calling the Russian tortoise a steppe tortoise. However, it has fallen on deaf ears and no other member followed my suit. Oh well.

 

[bholmes88]

If you think it is bad with tortoises then you should try dealing with tarantulas and common names. When you have around 300 or so in the American hobby and each one can have multiple common names, it becomes confusing real fast. I exclusively use scientific names for all tarantulas, unless I am speaking to someone new to he hobby. I see it this way, we want the tortoise hobby to expand, correct? Then in my humble opinion we should embrace all noobs instead of becoming annoyed at the fact that they say spur thigh instead of sulcata or Greek. I mean seriously, is it really that terrible if they say spur thigh? They are technically correct either way. All it takes is one additional question from an educated member to help clarify what species of tortoise it really is. This is just my opinion though, take it or leave it.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

A few months ago we were talking about Russian tortoises on another thread and we wondered, because the forum is becoming so popular, and because almost any "tortoise" search you do comes up with references to our forum, we wondered if we, the forum, were big enough or popular enough that if we started calling Russian tortoises something else, how long would it take to catch on. So from that moment, I've been calling the Russian tortoise a steppe tortoise. However, it has fallen on deaf ears and no other member followed my suit. Oh well.

From now on, I vow to join you in this Glorious Mission, Yvonne...

Steppe Tortoise it is!

BTW, shouldn't the last category listed under "Mediterranean Tortoises (genus Testudo)" be updated?

 

[Yvonne G]

BTW, shouldn't the last category listed under "Mediterranean Tortoises (genus Testudo)" be updated?

Believe it or not, I tried to get Josh to change that, but I never got a response from him. I guess the silent treatment was easier than telling me "no."

 

[JeffG]

From now on, I am going to refer to Russian tortoises as "German tortoises".

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

BTW, shouldn't the last category listed under "Mediterranean Tortoises (genus Testudo)" be updated?

Believe it or not, I tried to get Josh to change that, but I never got a response from him. I guess the silent treatment was easier than telling me "no."

Hmmm..I'm thinking that if we all sent him a message, he might consider it!

I smell a campaign coming on...

From now on, I am going to refer to Russian tortoises as "German tortoises".

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...I'm guessing you have your reasons...

But DEFINITELY not "European Box Turtles"!

 

[Madkins007]

The two examples listed are the most common ones. "Russians" and "spur thighs". They've been called Russians by everyone I know since the mid 80s. Seems so silly since it is not even correct. The one that really chaps my hide is the whole turtle/tortoise thing. I know, I know, all the technicalities.... Horses and are both equine mammals, but nobody calls a zebra a small striped horse. And darn it! A tortoise is a different animal than a turtle!

Personally I prefer Latin names too, but I wish the scientists would leave well enough alone. I am still trying to re-learn all my Central and South American cichlid genuses. What was wrong with Cichlasoma? And sulcatas and leopards will ALWAYS be Geochelone, as far as I'm concerned.

Dear lord, spoken like a true-blue, card carrying geezer! I'm right there with ya, dag nab it!

More seriously- since the scientific names, when done right, tell you instantly how animals are related, it is only logical that they change as our understanding changes. It is a deeply imperfect system, but it is the one we have.

---

Oh, as for our beloved Geochelone... the problem is that it is not a defined category. You can list the animals in it, but the closest definition it has is "medium to large-sized tortoises from other than the Mediterranean with no remarkable characteristics (like hinged shells)". That is not a real genus name, it is a catch-all category that really does demand more investigation.