Confusion

[carolinaboy165]

Ok, I've had my sully's for almost two weeks now. so far all is well and very enjoyable! But yesterday, we had a book that came in the mail. It's called Sulcatas: African Spurred Tortoises in Captivity. I guess my wife was thinking im pretty OCD about them so she ordered a book? Lol. But anyway, I read a few things in it that confuse me. I've read thread on here that say keep humidity at 80% or above, I've read it's ok as long as it's above 50%, but this book said that heat and aridity keep them healthy.
Also, It says the cause of pyrimiding is diet that is too high in protein and low in calcium. I've read that before but have also read that it's lack of heat and humidity..and of course hydration.
So on that note, here's my daily spiel with Penelope and Tuukka: their basking spot stays around 100-105 and the cool end stays between 80-85. Humidity normally stays between 75-90. Sometimes it drops in the 60's but it normally stays pretty humid, thanks to the fogger I got. I soak them in the morning for about 30 minutes. If it's nice and warm out, I'll let them roam in the yard and let them soak up the sun. If it's real nice out, I'll let them stay out for a couple hours (under supervision of course). Then I'll soak them again. I put food in the enclosure once in the morning then again at night. Calcium once a week. Always have access to water. I think I've covered just about everything.
And also, I hear don't use foggers because they can cause respiratory infections?
Thoughts? Opinions?

 

[wellington]

99% of the info in books are outdated. My suggestion, stick with the info from this forum and you won't go wrong.

 

[BeeBee*BeeLeaves]

I agree. That is so 90's, old school stuff now. Pretty pictures, that's it. If it worked, then why are there so many pyramided sulcatas from those early years? Poor dessicated tortoise jerky pets. People just did not know better, I think. The new methods make more sense in that babies are apparently born in the rainy season, it's hot desert rainy time and they hide from prey in what becomes pretty humid areas. Voila! No spiking scutes in the wild and no more spiky scutes in captivity! : )

 

[Maggie Cummings]

In the wild Sulcata dig burrows some to 20 feet or more. Inside those burrows they pee and poop and that causes a relatively high humidity content. Most of us experienced Sulcata keepers believe that humidity is necessary to help prevent pyramiding.
I believe there are 4 things necessary for a healthy tort, UVB rays from the sun, lots of exercise, a good diet and humidity. Leave out 1 of those things and you'll get pyramiding. I agree with Wellington, listen to us and not out of date books. Reptile keeping is a kind of new thing and as such we are learning more and more about the correct way to keep them. As late 1990's things have changed. When I was new we kept hatchlings on rabbit pellets and couldn't figure out why our torts grew splay legged, now we know it was the pellets. There are so many things just like that example that it takes time and experience to learn.
Also I think you are soaking your animal too much. Once a day for 10 or 15 minutes is sufficient, any more then that pushes the feces through their intestines too fast and they don't get the complete nutritional value from the food. They will drink generally in the first 10 minutes of soaking...
Right now in Senegal which is part Sulcata territory it's 75 degrees with 65% humidity...HTH

 

[carolinaboy165]

Makes sense. Right now what im doing with humidity is turning the fogger on until it gets up to about 90% then cut it off until it gets down to about 55%. Normally takes a while til it gets that low. But ever since I put foil on top of my enclosure, never had a problem with heat!
And what do you think about that statement saying foggers may cause respiratory infections?

 

[Yvonne G]

That might be true if you don't keep the temperature up. A cold and humid environment most certainly will cause a baby tortoise to get sick.

 

[carolinaboy165]

I mainly turn it on during the day when it is hotter. I see what you mean when it would be colder, that makes sense.

 

[wellington]

Have you had a chance to read Toms threads on raising Sullies? They will explain the temps and humidity to keeping a healthy, smooth sulcata. They are below in my post, by my signature. The one about leopards pertains too. Read them. A humidity of 80% with temps no ,lower then 80 day and night.

 

[carolinaboy165]

Yes I have read that thread. I also read DeanS thread too and saw it said that it's ok if humidity levels can go down to 50%. Ever since I read that, I turn the fogger on until it gets up to about 90ish% then turn it off until it drops down to about 55%

 

[Laura]

what is the date on that book?

 

[carolinaboy165]

I think it said 2000. I'll have to look for it. It's somewhere around here lol

 

[Tom]

I have typed up innumerable threads covering everything you just asked. It is clear that you have not read them.

Please click on the links in my signature and all will be revealed to you.

That book, and every other sulcata book I have found is based in incorrect speculation. Same with websites and care sheets too. Experts, vets and breeders also read books like that one and repeat the same wrong info. That is why almost every leopard and sulcata raised in the last 20 years is pyramided and or stunted. I have spent thousands of hours over the last five years combating and trying to eradicate this ignorance. Forgive me, but it kills me when I see a new member with a post like this... Please read.

 

[carolinaboy165]

I've definitely read them. I still do everything to what you have said in your threads. I figured it was outdated information and things have changed and improved on how to care for them. I was also wondering what your thoughts were in DeanS thread saying that humidity can get down to 50%. Mine rarely gets that low, but is it ok if it does? Other than that, it stays pretty high

 

[Tom]

I think you get pyramiding and slow growth with 50% humidity. I don't just think it, I know it. I've done it lots of times.

At 80% in a closed chamber with an ambient no lower than 80 degrees, they grow smooth and relatively fast on the same diet as a dry raised one.

PM Dean and ask him what he thinks of my tortoises compared to his. They were all hatchlings from the same batch. He's a good friend. Tell him I sent you.

Have you read both "End of Pyramiding" threads and "Closed Chambers"? Those three spell it out the best, but there are lots of others too.

 

[carolinaboy165]

Just read "end of pyrimiding". Good stuff. So far, I seem to be on the right track, which is relieving. Remember, im still a rook! . When we got Penelope, she already had pyramiding, and if I had never come across this forum, I'd be taking care of her the way her owner was telling us, which is mostly what you read in the books. So im pretty OCD about her environment, diet and all that, hoping I'll see improvement in her growth. Im almost like the guy "watching the pot" lol. Same thing with Tuukka. He already has a nice smooth little shell, so I plan on it staying that way!