General question re tiredness

[Brandon King]

Hey everyone, this is Morty. Read Ross Gurley's book on Sulcatas and have tried to adhere to that.
Basic diet right now is red leaf lettuce and wheat grass sprinkled with vitamin supplements
Soak him 3X week for 15-20 min.
Light (UVA+B) is on from 7AM-10PM, temp is 100F under the light, and 80 at the other end of the cage, where he spends a significant amount of time.
Just curious about some behavior:

1. He hasn't been eating a lot, and is picky when he does. For example, he doesn't really ever touch the wheat grass unless its the only thing on his tray. He certainly doesn't touch pellets. However, he has gained 10-15g since we got him.
2. He seems kind of lethargic. I've read that baby sulcatas often are, but just wanted some personal insight. He basically sleeps in, basks, eats if he feels like it, then goes to his dark spot.
3. Saw him eating his poo the other day--is that normal?
4. Ross Gurley's book says there shouldn't be any humidity in the terrarium--is that true? I've read conflicting authorities on this point. As you can see in the picture, there are two water sources for humidity.

I've attached pics of Morty and his setup.

Thanks!!!

 

[Yvonne G]

Rather than reading a book that has information set in stone, I prefer to find my information here, where we update it as new info becomes available.

We have great care sheets for sulcata tortoises. A couple things I would change: First, the diet. The tortoise needs much more than one type of lettuce and a bit of grass. My staple for sulcata tortoises, when being fed indoors and not grazing, is endive, escarole, turnip greens, collard greens, red/green leaf lettuce and romaine. I also get a handful of clean grass and cut it up with the scissors and add it to the mix. I chop this all up into small pieces and mix in some moistened Zoo Med Grassland Tortoise Diet.

Next, the enclosure. That's an ok size, but it's very barren. Buy a few artificial weighted aquarium plants and sink the weighted bottom down into the substrate. Place them around the middle of the enclosure to help deflect some of the bright light and make him feel a little safer. I would also get rid of those bowls and use clay plant saucers sunk down into the substrate instead. I use a plant saucer for water and a piece of broken cement for food.

Next, the lights. If your light is sitting on a screen top, the screen is filtering out most of the beneficial UVB rays. I use this light:

but I use the 100 watt bulb, not the 160 watt that's shown. You can raise or lower the light to reach the correct temperature, but don't have the light any lower than 12" from the back of the tortoise. You should keep your baby at or around 80-85F degrees all the time, day and night. If he wants to be cooler, he'll go into the shelter.

Please read the care sheets pinned at the top of our section.

I think you'll find that if you change his environment and heat/humidity, along with the light, he'll perk up and eat better. And yes, they certainly DO need humidity. They hatch during the monsoon season. It's hot and humid with lots of grass and weeds growing. I cover my baby enclosures with a sheet of plastic to keep the cold air from the house out and the warm moist air inside. I also pour water over the substrate and mix it up with my had to make it all wet. I keep the substrate pretty wet.

 

[Melis]

Have you read through the sulcata care sheets located on this forum? You will find that a large part of the info in that book is incorrect. I'm familiar with that book, as I raised a sulcata for 10 years with most of that mentality, and unfortunately I lost her. The most important thing I can tell you is that the humidity/soaking needs of that "old school" mentality is completely wrong. Your baby needs daily soaks and 80% humidity.
This forum and the members are awesome, and following all the info here will help ensure morty lives a healthy life

 

[Brandon King]

Rather than reading a book that has information set in stone, I prefer to find my information here, where we update it as new info becomes available.

We have great care sheets for sulcata tortoises. A couple things I would change: First, the diet. The tortoise needs much more than one type of lettuce and a bit of grass. My staple for sulcata tortoises, when being fed indoors and not grazing, is endive, escarole, turnip greens, collard greens, red/green leaf lettuce and romaine. I also get a handful of clean grass and cut it up with the scissors and add it to the mix. I chop this all up into small pieces and mix in some moistened Zoo Med Grassland Tortoise Diet.

Next, the enclosure. That's an ok size, but it's very barren. Buy a few artificial weighted aquarium plants and sink the weighted bottom down into the substrate. Place them around the middle of the enclosure to help deflect some of the bright light and make him feel a little safer. I would also get rid of those bowls and use clay plant saucers sunk down into the substrate instead. I use a plant saucer for water and a piece of broken cement for food.

Next, the lights. If your light is sitting on a screen top, the screen is filtering out most of the beneficial UVB rays. I use this light:

View attachment 219882 but I use the 100 watt bulb, not the 160 watt that's shown. You can raise or lower the light to reach the correct temperature, but don't have the light any lower than 12" from the back of the tortoise. You should keep your baby at or around 80-85F degrees all the time, day and night. If he wants to be cooler, he'll go into the shelter.

Please read the care sheets pinned at the top of our section.

I think you'll find that if you change his environment and heat/humidity, along with the light, he'll perk up and eat better. And yes, they certainly DO need humidity. They hatch during the monsoon season. It's hot and humid with lots of grass and weeds growing. I cover my baby enclosures with a sheet of plastic to keep the cold air from the house out and the warm moist air inside. I also pour water over the substrate and mix it up with my had to make it all wet. I keep the substrate pretty wet.

Thanks!
Ok - I'm using that light right now.

 

[JoesMum]

Lack of activity is invariably caused by incorrect temperatures. What do you have warm side, cool sde, directly under the basking lamp and overnight minimum? A digital thermometer, preferably the temperature gun type, is the only way to measure accurately.

I too recommend you read the TFO care guides if you haven't already

They're written by species experts working hard to correct the outdated information widely available from books, on the internet and from pet stores and, sadly, from some breeders and vets too.

Beginner Mistakes
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

How to raise a healthy Sulcata
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/


For those that have a young Sulcata
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/P

 

[Gillian M]

A very warm welcome to the forum, @Brandon King .

A cute little tort. GOD bless.

Please give your tort daily soaks in warm water, so as to avoid dehydration and pyramiding.

Don't worry: torts do not like change. Therefore, the take time to adapt to it.

 

[Bee62]

Hey everyone, this is Morty. Read Ross Gurley's book on Sulcatas and have tried to adhere to that.
Basic diet right now is red leaf lettuce and wheat grass sprinkled with vitamin supplements
Soak him 3X week for 15-20 min.
Light (UVA+B) is on from 7AM-10PM, temp is 100F under the light, and 80 at the other end of the cage, where he spends a significant amount of time.
Just curious about some behavior:

1. He hasn't been eating a lot, and is picky when he does. For example, he doesn't really ever touch the wheat grass unless its the only thing on his tray. He certainly doesn't touch pellets. However, he has gained 10-15g since we got him.
2. He seems kind of lethargic. I've read that baby sulcatas often are, but just wanted some personal insight. He basically sleeps in, basks, eats if he feels like it, then goes to his dark spot.
3. Saw him eating his poo the other day--is that normal?
4. Ross Gurley's book says there shouldn't be any humidity in the terrarium--is that true? I've read conflicting authorities on this point. As you can see in the picture, there are two water sources for humidity.

I've attached pics of Morty and his setup.

Thanks!!!

1. When sulcata babies don`t want to eat or picky eat, there is something wrong with them. A healthy sulcata baby eats a lot the whole day trough with short breaks.
2. To be letharcic is also a sign that something is wrong. Healthy sulcata babies are not lethargic at all.
3. Eating poo can be a sign that he is hungry. Feed more food that he likes. Enough food should be available the whole day long.
4. The book is completely wrong what humidity concerns. Without high humidity your tortoise will be dehydrated all time and that will damage the kidneys. Your tort need warm temps and high humidity and warm soaks every day or it will get sick.

How are your night temps ? Do you have a CHE for the night ?

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

Hi
You’ve got a lot of great advise.

 

[Tom]

Hello and welcome Brandon. I've got that book too. Its old, out-dated and wrong. I know Russ too. He's a good guy, but in that book he just repeated all the same old wrong info.

Read those threads that Joe's Mum posted for you for the correct info. They need monsoon conditions. That is what they hatch into in the wild. Warm, humid and rainy.

Your tortoise is already pyramiding from the overly dry conditions. You need to fix the environment ASAP.

Also, where did you get the tortoise? Most breeders don't start them correctly and this can lead to the lethargy you are seeing.

 

[Maro2Bear]

Greetings

Ditto everything that @JoesMum and @Tom and others have said. I purchased a hatchling sully from @Lancecham three years ago and religiously followed the information presented here.

• For those that have a young Sulcata
• http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/P

Ive had zero issues, zero problems, our Sully has grown from 40 grams to over 60 lbs in three years.

We soaked daily, had proper humid ENCLOSED chamber (s), yes plural since he quickly outgrew the first one. Fed him weeds, grass, hay, and mazuri, and mixed greens, etc. Made sure he had the right lights, plenty of room to ramble.

And mind you, this is in Maryland where we have to improvise during Winter.

Follow the info http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/P religiously, soak daily, monitor your temps...... And have fun !

 

[Melis]

Greetings

Ditto everything that @JoesMum and @Tom and others have said. I purchased a hatchling sully from @Lancecham three years ago and religiously followed the information presented here.

• For those that have a young Sulcata
• http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/P

Ive had zero issues, zero problems, our Sully has grown from 40 grams to over 60 lbs in three years.

We soaked daily, had proper humid ENCLOSED chamber (s), yes plural since he quickly outgrew the first one. Fed him weeds, grass, hay, and mazuri, and mixed greens, etc. Made sure he had the right lights, plenty of room to ramble.

And mind you, this is in Maryland where we have to improvise during Winter.

Follow the info http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/P religiously, soak daily, monitor your temps...... And have fun !

Where are you from in Maryland?