I always thought dandelion was the perfect stable food with smaller amount of greens for variety. Now I read it has to much oxciliac acid to be a stable food. Is this true? Thanks, Jack
confussed about dandelion
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That depends on a few things...
1. What kind of dandelion? 'Yard' dandelions and the Italian Dandelion often seen in stores have different levels.
2. What part of the plant? The white sap of the dandelion is basically 'oxalate juice' (most white sap is high in oxalates.) The flower has almost none, and the leaves are lower. The Italian Dandelion leaves are about 0.02mg/100gr of food- a very low level.
3. How worried are you about oxalates? Many, but not all, reptile nutritionists feel this is an overstated issue- oxalates cancel some of the calcium in that food item, not in the entire diet, and some oxylic acid crystals seem to have a beneficial element in scrubbing the blood vessel walls, etc.
A lot of wild tortoises are well-documented eating plants so high in oxalates that they are considered toxic to humans with no known ill effects.
The biggest concern is bladder stones, which also occur in wild tortoises. Oxalates are one likely cause, but Dr. Douglas Mader (Reptile Medicine and Surgery) and others feel that the MAIN concern is dehydration, which concentrates the minerals in the kidneys to start with.
My practice, based on research and the recommendation of other experienced keepers, is to use things with oxalates to moderation and in rotation with other greens- but I don't count store-bought dandelion as having much oxalates.
(Note- one sign of high oxalates is a coarse texture or grittiness, like you feel in spinach.)
1. What kind of dandelion? 'Yard' dandelions and the Italian Dandelion often seen in stores have different levels.
2. What part of the plant? The white sap of the dandelion is basically 'oxalate juice' (most white sap is high in oxalates.) The flower has almost none, and the leaves are lower. The Italian Dandelion leaves are about 0.02mg/100gr of food- a very low level.
3. How worried are you about oxalates? Many, but not all, reptile nutritionists feel this is an overstated issue- oxalates cancel some of the calcium in that food item, not in the entire diet, and some oxylic acid crystals seem to have a beneficial element in scrubbing the blood vessel walls, etc.
A lot of wild tortoises are well-documented eating plants so high in oxalates that they are considered toxic to humans with no known ill effects.
The biggest concern is bladder stones, which also occur in wild tortoises. Oxalates are one likely cause, but Dr. Douglas Mader (Reptile Medicine and Surgery) and others feel that the MAIN concern is dehydration, which concentrates the minerals in the kidneys to start with.
My practice, based on research and the recommendation of other experienced keepers, is to use things with oxalates to moderation and in rotation with other greens- but I don't count store-bought dandelion as having much oxalates.
(Note- one sign of high oxalates is a coarse texture or grittiness, like you feel in spinach.)
Thank you, we have at least four kind of dandelion. They don't like the "Hairy" kind but tortuga eats a smooth broad leaf type. There is another type that grows on a tall stem and small leaves that grow from the stem (rather then from a rosette from the ground) and has small .25 inch flowers that he loves.
I try to do less than 50% of the diet of greens high in oxalates. Personally I'm afraid of stones (my tort had one right after I got him) so I feed more lettuces than weeds, unfortunately. I try to encourage hydration but you can only do so much (moisten food and "force" soak). I think in captivity you just can't seem to hydrate as well as in the wild, or something else is going on, because yes in the wild torts seem to eat almost exclusively plants high in oxalic acid yet in captivity some tots with even a low oxalic acid diet are known to get stones. Everything in moderation. Depends what you call a staple food. For me, I feed over 20 items so one food isn't more than 5% of the diet hopefully. Great post Mark!
Here is a short article on stones: http://www.reptilechannel.com/reptile-health/turtle-and-tortoise-health/tortoise-bladder-stones.aspx
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