Could a sulcata?

[ryan57]

Little Stumpy just weighed over 6lbs in the middle of month 14 which is normal I guess.
Could a sulcata really grow to 50lbs @ 2 years old and full grown @ 3 years? What on earth did they send me? If growth stays pretty consistent based on the chart below and last summer Stump will be about 50lbs @ 2 years and full grown year 3.

Mazuri is still about 60-70g per day, cut back on greens to very little but... the grazing. Stump will graze for 2 hours then warm up after stuffed then do it again in the afternoon.

Is this at all normal? Is entering the pound a week club in late June real? Last years average growth rate for all weeks was 6%. summer months were between 8-13.5% weekly. I'm estimating 6% through summer 2023 and 5% in the fall dropping to 3% or so the third year. Can a sulcata grow this fast? I mean, I'm watching it but...

Why is his dome so high? Looked more like a ladybug 2 days ago then today the scutes spread out again like they do. About 1/4" in each direction this week.







Has a bit of concave going on and notch is spreading.


wasn't having any of staying by the tape.

 

[Tim Carlisle]

Beautiful tort! I guess it bears asking: are you 100% certain on its age? Admittedly, I've never seen a 2y/o at 50lbs. Maybe Sudanese ones grow like that, but I've never had a Sudanese. Mine was right around 20 lbs at 2 years old. He's 5 now and 60 lbs. I don't think the ever stop growing though. They slow down their growth rate once they reach adulthood though. @Tom ?

 

[ryan57]

Beautiful tort! I guess it bears asking: are you 100% certain on its age? Admittedly, I've never seen a 2y/o at 50lbs. Maybe Sudanese ones grow like that, but I've never had a Sudanese. Mine was right around 20 lbs at 2 years old. He's 5 now and 60 lbs. I don't think the ever stop growing though. They slow down their growth rate once they reach adulthood though. @Tom ?

Yeah. I ordered him 2-3 weeks old says American reptile distributors / ordered it on march 21st and got him on march 22nd last year at about 2" or so. There are photos all over the forum of Stump through the months. I only have one tortoise. I hope they didn't get boxes mixed up or something... Sudanese huh.

 

[Tim Carlisle]

Yeah. I ordered him 2-3 weeks old says American reptile distributors / ordered it on march 21st and got him on march 22nd last year at about 2" or so. There are photos all over the forum of Stump through the months. I only have one tortoise. I hope they didn't get boxes mixed up or something... Sudanese huh.

View attachment 356192

LOL! Seems like one well-cared for sully. As for my "Sudanese" comment.... I haven't a clue. That's why I tagged Tom.

 

[TammyJ]

Yes, I see what you mean and why you are so concerned about his alarming and outrageous growth rate, not to mention that much too perfect shell and way too gorgeous face and legs. I hope you can find someone willing to take him off your hands even if he is so obviously in dire straits and would take such an enormous effort to bring back to some semblance of normality. I'll take him right now.

 

[ryan57]

Funny! I read where Tom said that sudanese get big at a "normal" rate and then kind of just keep growing. The issue is really like Donald that Len raised (great looking tortoise) @ 2yo he was 26lbs but the aspect ratio of the shell is much different. Donald is a lot flatter. Stump's dome is pretty high and because I have no tortoise experience I don't know if that's normal and then they flatten a bit as they grow out or if it's characteristic of sudanese. This summer will tell. I don't care if it grows to 300lbs because I have space and such but I was planning for it to take much longer.

In September I assumed growth will taper off like it did last year and 4% growth through the winter. The minimum week was 3%. I've been adjusting the weight to predict growth and after 6 months of age it has become pretty accurate.

 

[Pák]

Just accept the thing, that you are doing the job as everyone just dreams of it. Sit back and enjoy it

 

[TammyJ]

I have to tell you, that is the best looking Sulcata I have ever seen.

 

[Pák]

@ryan57 Do you feed him daily with Mazuri accourding to your feeding calculation table?

 

[ryan57]

@ryan57 Do you feed him daily with Mazuri accourding to your feeding calculation table?

Yes. I followed Mazuri's instructions from month 2 which was Mazuri LS small tortoise for the first year and then at month 9 I used up all of the small tortoise I had and switched to Mazuri LS. They say to use small tortoise for 1 year and then switch but I did it early because growth was plenty. Today Stump ate 60G of soaked Mazuri, 30G of chopped greens and about 3 dozen dandelions, weeds and grass (>80G or so)

oh... and about 1/2 of a cuttlebone yesterday. I use minerall calcium powder a little bit every day but he still goes for the cuttlebone every couple weeks.

It seems that if I feed Mazuri more he may graze less but if I offer less the grazing becomes a marathon.

 

[Pák]

you seem to be raising him the way like ranchers fatten pigs 😂😂

Do he live still indoor? I am very curious of his enclosure 😳. Can you show me pls

 

[Tom]

Len grows them as fast as anyone I have ever seen, so no, I don't think 50 pounds is possible in two years. Normal is about 10 pounds per year. Feeding lots of Mazuri will accelerate this growth rate, but we really don't know if there is a detrimental cost to faster growth rates. Some people in some cases believe that there is, but other believe that if nutrition, hydration, temperatures, and exercise are all correct that it is fine. Only time will tell when these fast growers are decades old. Experiments are underway right now.

Mazuri is good as a supplemental food. I don't recommend it every day. Once or twice a week is good. I prefer to feed them real foods like grasses, leaves and weeds, and the Mazuri ensures that there are no nutritional gaps.

MinerAll is not a calcium supplement. It is a balanced mineral supplement. Its great for growing tortoises and helps prevent rock or substrate eating. I like to use it twice a week in normal circumstances, or more if they are eating rocks. Calcium is also good twice a week, but not necessary if they have access to cuttle bones.

 

[ryan57]

Len grows them as fast as anyone I have ever seen, so no, I don't think 50 pounds is possible in two years. Normal is about 10 pounds per year. Feeding lots of Mazuri will accelerate this growth rate, but we really don't know if there is a detrimental cost to faster growth rates. Some people in some cases believe that there is, but other believe that if nutrition, hydration, temperatures, and exercise are all correct that it is fine. Only time will tell when these fast growers are decades old. Experiments are underway right now.

Mazuri is good as a supplemental food. I don't recommend it every day. Once or twice a week is good. I prefer to feed them real foods like grasses, leaves and weeds, and the Mazuri ensures that there are no nutritional gaps.

MinerAll is not a calcium supplement. It is a balanced mineral supplement. Its great for growing tortoises and helps prevent rock or substrate eating. I like to use it twice a week in normal circumstances, or more if they are eating rocks. Calcium is also good twice a week, but not necessary if they have access to cuttle bones.

Tom,

Thanks for taking the time and that is a relief. I'll probably keep the Mazuri to 50g or so daily until I'm out of it as Stump grows so it will eventually taper off before year 3. In my limited experimentation every time I short the tortoise on the mazuri, it seems to make up for the nutrition in the yard by eating like a pig. Rock eating has subsided based on your recommendation of MinerAll. Calcium is 2-3 times a week and Stump still has access to cuttle bones but doesn't touch them often then one day, he'll eat like 1/2 of one.

Walking/grazing probably averages about 1/3 mile every day in the yard.


Hanging in the shade

went down in the retention pond area today for the first time.

backyard that will eventually be fenced in. Yeah, log splitting happens tomorrow...

- part of the side yard. Grass didn't die this winter and stayed pretty green and always had something to munch on. In the spring - fall you can watch the grass grow in this part of the country.

The perimeter of the property is about 1100' and Stump will sometimes walk around it about twice and then graze the back yard on nice days, so about 3000' or over a bit over 1/2 mile. Full grown, s/he will NEED the full yard fenced in especially because this tortoise has become accustomed to it and paces between the gates in the fenced backyard close to the house expecting a "walk".

 

[ryan57]

you seem to be raising him the way like ranchers fatten pigs 😂😂

Do he live still indoor? I am very curious of his enclosure 😳. Can you show me pls

Yes. I think this tortoise will always live indoors but... this is my only and first tortoise so I don't know how behavior will change over time.

Here is the routine... carapace temps are usually between mid 80's and mid 90's for 16 hours per day in the doggie bed -w- a 40w bulb.Goes into the doggie bed after a 15-30 minute soak after pacing the mat to come back in. Stays here between about 4:30-5:30 until 9:30 or so the next morning.
Walks past the "winter sun" - wood stove and then down the hallway to my wife's office. Has been known to stop here in mornings or evenings -w- carapace temps of as high as 118deg. before moving. Of course I block it off with the screen so he can't get injured.

thenthen down the hall
hangs out in here until about 10:30 - 11. Drinks a bunch, gets some food on the dish and then bugs my wife to open the door.

Goes outside

hangs out in the unfinished day hang out house or in the yard.comes back in sometimes until a soak and the doggie bed.

 

[Tom]

Yes. I think this tortoise will always live indoors but... this is my only and first tortoise so I don't know how behavior will change over time.

Here is the routine... carapace temps are usually between mid 80's and mid 90's for 16 hours per day in the doggie bed -w- a 40w bulb.View attachment 356266Goes into the doggie bed after a 15-30 minute soak after pacing the mat to come back in. Stays here between about 4:30-5:30 until 9:30 or so the next morning.
View attachment 356267Walks past the "winter sun" - wood stove and then down the hallway to my wife's office. Has been known to stop here in mornings or evenings -w- carapace temps of as high as 118deg. before moving. Of course I block it off with the screen so he can't get injured.
View attachment 356268
thenView attachment 356269then down the hallView attachment 356270
hangs out in here until about 10:30 - 11. Drinks a bunch, gets some food on the dish and then bugs my wife to open the door.
View attachment 356271
Goes outside
View attachment 356272
hangs out in the unfinished day hang out house or in the yard.View attachment 356273View attachment 356274View attachment 356275View attachment 356276comes back in sometimes until a soak and the doggie bed.
View attachment 356277

Grazing in the yard like a pig is desirable. That is the right food.

Lots of walking is good. Lots of walking loose in the house or loose in the yard is eventually going to end in disaster. You may not want to hear it, but what you are doing is eventually going to harm your tortoise. We see examples of it here regularly, and I see examples here locally and at my vet friends offices too.

Also, carapace temps of 118 can damage the keratin. Your tortoises needs proper housing and heating.

 

[Pák]

@ryan57 Thank you for the deep dive presentation, i loved it! 😊 I think Stump lives a dream life, with lots of varied living space, seems like he is really confident and relaxed in it 😁

 

[jeff kushner]

Tammy's right, obvious "neglect"....LOL, Stumpy lives better than most people on this forum!


My only question to Ryan, .....come on buddy, did you think you were getting a hamster? You knew darned well that Stumpy was going to get huge, fast....that's why you lied your eyes out to your folks...."The pet store said, he won't get too big"

We all have been there.......bless you! LOL I don't know about the other parents here, but I would have been disappointed if my kids hadn't pulled that stuff.....like I did to my folks.

You did Stumpy credit with his "Studly" pictures! He looks great!

 

[ryan57]

Grazing in the yard like a pig is desirable. That is the right food.

Lots of walking is good. Lots of walking loose in the house or loose in the yard is eventually going to end in disaster. You may not want to hear it, but what you are doing is eventually going to harm your tortoise. We see examples of it here regularly, and I see examples here locally and at my vet friends offices too.

Also, carapace temps of 118 can damage the keratin. Your tortoises needs proper housing and heating.

Yes. You’ve got to understand the times in each space and I have an interesting behavioral thing.

16 hours - doggie bed not moving. Hear a click or two every now and then.

Stays in the “burrow” the humid tote unless stump is eating inside or outside. About 4-5 hours. There is 0% roaming around inside the house. Temps are perfect everywhere. 82-92 when sleeping. 68-70deg in the office / 82 in the tote, 105 under the Che in the tote. Humidity is about 40-50% indoors. Humidity around 70% because of the water bowl and water vapor in the tote.

Stumps experience in the house is a bee line between two spaces and outside. No roaming. There is nothing bad that can happen inside where I live unless there was an intruder and I pity the intruder. Outside stump is in an enclosed yard unless I am walking with him/her. Again… nothing bad CAN happen especially once Stump is larger. I have pulled all stickers, questionable weeds. Outside time is about 3-5 hours max before Stump heads to the mat to come in.

Now… when we went to Florida, even though we brought the doggie bed and his burrow tote, Stump would roam. One day I was working and stump walked by my desk and went to a bedroom, went under a bed and then into a closet in the corner. He would check out all the kitchen living room too. Did the same thing at my parents house.

However, at his home, he has never been interested in exploring indoors. Outside is another story but he never is free roaming indoors or outdoors OUTSIDE of the fence. There IS a large enclosure outside.

I had 2 gigs this weekend and we have a Stump cam in Kathleen’s office. He did go out of the tote for food at 6:30pm which was uncharacteristic but slept in the tote until we got home. We are leaving for Ireland/uk next week and we have someone staying here to feed the birds, fish and watch Stump and the house. She came last Saturday to see the routine.