Doing my research....

[Amanda A]

Hello!

I'm very new here, and LOVING this site! I fell in love with a leopard tortoise baby months ago while getting insects for my bearded dragon from a nearby reptile store. I decided to put them on my list of research, to see if I might want to get one someday! I've gone into full fledged research mode, as most of my initial concerns have been answered with Google. There are just always a handful of topics that are better discussed with actual people who are actually living it!

That being said... I have determined that Leopard is definitely what I WANT. Now to be sure I can offer the tort what he/she NEEDS. Why a Leopard? Simple. Size. Not too big, but big enough for outdoors. I will likely start with a baby, therefore I will start indoors, and move outdoors when it's ready. I will have an enclosure in the garage for winter months, and I'm even considering a tortoise door so he can go in and out as it pleases.

My number 1 concern about having a Leopard outdoors is that I live in Northern California, Sacramento area. It can get pretty stinking hot here, but it can also get cold at night. Most of my backyard gets FULL sun, nearly all day.

Current questions:

1. What size is big enough for outdoors? So I can have a rough estimate on when I will need to have the enclosure ready out there.
2. Is it reasonable to have a Leopard outdoors in my climate? Are there adjustments that I can make to accommodate for chilly times?

I appreciate your input!
-Amanda A

 

[wellington]

Hello and welcome. Read the threads of Tom's below in my post. Then search for his other threads on beginner mistakes, night boxes and any others he might have. They will pertain to your leopard. One precaution, do all your research on this forum. Most of the info you may have already found outside this forum is old outdated wrong info. Most all the sulcata threads will pertain to a leopard.

 

[TheWarTortoise]

Alright I thought I'd put my input in, since I was in a similar situation about 3-4 years ago. I'm not a terribly experienced member, but whatever. Something I'd recommend is that you DO NOT buy your new tortoise at a pet store. I'm not sure if this includes your local pet store, but in the big ones like Petco and Pet Smart, tortoises (and all reptiles basically) are treated horribly. Not necessarily in the stores itself, but it's suppliers treat them like merchandise; not living, breathing animals.

I'd recommend going to the tortoise classified section at www.kingsnake.com. The website is set up so that individual breeders can sell their tortoises, instead of a big supplier. I got my leopard hatchling from there 3 years ago, and he was in absolutely perfect condition. I've also heard that Tortoise Supply is good too.

As for advice for keeping, just make sure, if you get a hatchling, to keep it humid. I didn't keep my leopard's enclosure as humid as it should've been, and now he has a pretty good amount of pyramiding. Also make sure his diet is right. I feed my Leopard a mix of dandelion, escarole, and endive lettuce. One more reminder is that you soak it regularly. I recommend 5-7 times a week.

Sorry for the long-ish reply. Just make sure you give it a great life, and realize that these tortoises are a big obligation. As in you may have to put him/her in your will, depending on how old you are. Be sure to post pictures when you get him!

 

[Amanda A]

That is exactly why I have come here! I hit a similar wall when doing my research while preparing for my dragon. There's only so much information you can find on any one subject using the Internet. After a while you just start getting more confused with contradicting information.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

I heated retreat for a leo is pretty much a need for your climate. I have noticed that leos don't seem to have a strong, go to the night-house drive, so nights when temps drop you may have to manually put the tortoise away. There are several good night-house how to build threads here.

Size of yard is proportional to how much 'natural' graze you might incorporate into the husbandry. It seems like an adult leo can do okay with at least 500 square feet of grass weed area (10 x 50), and not eat it all to the soil by the end of each season. A few shrubs for shade and to hide under with some edible plant and you might get away with nearly no bought food.

You might end up with more than one, so then more outside space is a good idea.

 

[wellington]

Good point given by Thewsttortoise, buy from a breeder. However, a breeder from this forum will have started the leopard out right. Not all breeders will. If they don't start them the humid way, don't buy.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

In addition to Kingsnake there is also Fauna classified, Facebook also has a Tortoise Classified, actually a few of them. There are lots and lots of flippers out there who will by non-full disclosure sell a tortoise they did NOT breed. There are several folks here on TFO that breed and sell, some use the "for Sale" section, others just post lots of pictures with the idea that if you like what you see you will ask "How much?" Some breeders are in the greater Sacto/Bay Area, so you might do a pick-up and see the adults etc.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Amanda, and welcome to the Forum!

Not to toot my own horn or anything, but Will and I have babies for sale. Will comes up to Clovis from San Diego and takes the babies I've hatched out back home with him to sell. In fact, he's coming up in a week and a half, so right now I have 7 babies here in Clovis. If you'd like to take a road trip, a little over an hour, you can have pick of the litter! Contact @Will for the price.

 

[BeeBee*BeeLeaves]

Will and Yvonne, thumbs up from me! Heck yeah!

Love that you are researching first Amanda. You came to the best place for information and support. And leopard tortoises are indeed little charms!

 

[Amanda A]

Thank you all for your input!

I haven't settled on where I'm buying yet. I do have a lot of faith in this particular reptile shop, which I buy all of my dragons bugs at. It isn't your typical "pet shop" and it isn't remotely comparable to a Pets Mart or Petco. I refuse to do business with those stores due to their awful practices. But I have more information to gain before actually purchasing a reptile from them. For example, I now know that I need to check the baby tortoise tank for humidity, etc. May be someone on here has heard of them, and might have their own opinion? It's the Serpentarium, www.snakemuseum.com. I won't lie to you, I'm hoping no one chimes in with bad news here! But if you have it, I should hear it!

@Yvonne G I appreciate that! I'm not quite ready yet, as I'll need to prepare the tank and figure out the cost of a humidifier. I've seen them on chameleon tanks, so I have an idea of what I'm looking for now.

Also, I think one of my questions wasn't typed clearly. I'm curious of when to move the tortoise from the tank inside, to the outdoor enclosure. How big should the tortoise be at that point? I haven't been able to find that info anywhere.

Thanks again!!!

 

[Nmcgowan]

If I were you I would ask the folks at the Serpentarium where they get their reptiles. Hopefully, they say breeder. Then if you get the breeders name you can try to meet with them and see how their torts are started. My local non-franchise reptile store had Leos and I was able to find out that they were bred by a local breeder who starts them off right . (Also if you buy straight from the breeder it will probably be cheaper than any pet store franchise or not). This is what I did with mine. I still ended up buying Molly from that pet store but I was told later I could have saved 50$ by going to the breeder. Oh well.

One more thing I wanted to add because I see this written A LOT. I do work at a franchise pet store, I do not agree with how animals are raised/handled by distributors and I always recommend breeders to people who are willing to listen. Corporate's policies on animal health and care is very different and I've seen distributors get dropped instantly at the first sign of animal abuse. I can't speak for every store, but most are very adamant about maintaining healthy pets for new pet parents. . Anyone can feel free to PM me about this if they have any questions.

As others have said, kudos to you Amanda for doing your research!!!

 

[Amanda A]

If I were you I would ask the folks at the Serpentarium where they get their reptiles. Hopefully, they say breeder. Then if you get the breeders name you can try to meet with them and see how their torts are started. My local non-franchise reptile store had Leos and I was able to find out that they were bred by a local breeder who starts them off right . (Also if you buy straight from the breeder it will probably be cheaper than any pet store franchise or not). This is what I did with mine. I still ended up buying Molly from that pet store but I was told later I could have saved 50$ by going to the breeder. Oh well.

One more thing I wanted to add because I see this written A LOT. I do work at a franchise pet store, I do not agree with how animals are raised/handled by distributors and I always recommend breeders to people who are willing to listen. Corporate's policies on animal health and care is very different and I've seen distributors get dropped instantly at the first sign of animal abuse. I can't speak for every store, but most are very adamant about maintaining healthy pets for new pet parents. . Anyone can feel free to PM me about this if they have any questions.

As others have said, kudos to you Amanda for doing your research!!!

Thank you for your advice! I emailed the info email address for this store and got the following reply:
"Hello, Amanda,
We do not share supplier info but I assure you that we only purchase animals from reputable people. We get most of our Leopards from someone in Florida and they are raised outdoors for a couple months before we get them. We should have more available soon."

I feel slightly uncomfortable with this response, but every staff member I've ever spoken to their is so sincere and incredibly knowledgeable. I can't see them putting up with anything less than par.

 

[Nmcgowan]

Thank you for your advice! I emailed the info email address for this store and got the following reply:
"Hello, Amanda,
We do not share supplier info but I assure you that we only purchase animals from reputable people. We get most of our Leopards from someone in Florida and they are raised outdoors for a couple months before we get them. We should have more available soon."

I feel slightly uncomfortable with this response, but every staff member I've ever spoken to their is so sincere and incredibly knowledgeable. I can't see them putting up with anything less than par.

You are right in feeling a little unnerved. I think the main thing is that we want to make sure that Leos are started off wet and not dry. If they won't give out an actual name, maybe you can at least ask the employees if they know how the babies are started at this supplier. I always say it doesn't hurt to ask! Best of luck to you!

 

[Tom]

Current questions:

1. What size is big enough for outdoors? So I can have a rough estimate on when I will need to have the enclosure ready out there.
2. Is it reasonable to have a Leopard outdoors in my climate? Are there adjustments that I can make to accommodate for chilly times?

1. They are fine outdoors the day they hatch, for a limited amount of time and in the right enclosure. I prefer to have an indoor and an outdoor enclosure for them until they get big enough to live outside full time with a heated night box in the right climate. Your climate should be fine for this.

I put babies outside in a safe enclosure for one or two hours a day. Then soak them on the way back in. As they gain size, I leave them out longer and longer. By the time they reach 5-6", I leave them outside all day, weather permitting. Once they reach about 8-10", I let them live out side with a heated night box. Like this: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/

2. Your climate is fine for a leopard most of the year. The adjustments you make will be to keep the box the right temperature year round. Set your thermostat down to 70 during our hot summers when temps are in the 90s or more every day, and set your thermostat to 86 during winter when the nights are below freezing and the days don't warm up much. When they are small and living indoors, none of this is an issue as long as you are using a closed chamber to house them. The weather will always be consistent and perfect inside your closed chamber.