dry tortoise shell?

[Yingg]

hello all, this is my 15 year old female russian. i give her soaks (30 min) every other day and mist her religiously three times a day. i mist her veggies so she gets some extra water as well. however, i recently noticed that her shell is unusually dry. she's shedding scales too (that's not too out of the ordinary, she does that every now and then).

her scutes also look "separated" somehow. when i run my finger down these grooves they are not soft and she doesn't react. i'm not sure if this is normal or not. she's never looked this dry and crusty before. can anyone tell me why? is it a big issue? thank you all.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

What is her lighting and heating set up?
How often do you soak her?
Does she have a waterdish available?

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

hello all, this is my 15 year old female russian. i give her soaks (30 min) every other day and mist her religiously three times a day. i mist her veggies so she gets some extra water as well. however, i recently noticed that her shell is unusually dry. she's shedding scales too (that's not too out of the ordinary, she does that every now and then).

her scutes also look "separated" somehow. when i run my finger down these grooves they are not soft and she doesn't react. i'm not sure if this is normal or not. she's never looked this dry and crusty before. can anyone tell me why? is it a big issue? thank you all.

You mentioned in your other thread that she has liver malfunction (hence the edema and yellowish neck skin color). Perhaps, scales and skin dryness is related to this. Gaps between scutes can be a sign of new growth (unusual for 15 year old tortoise).

@zovick , @Yvonne G please, could you take a look?

 

[zovick]

You mentioned in your other thread that she has liver malfunction (hence the edema and yellowish neck skin color). Perhaps, scales and skin dryness is related to this. Gaps between scutes can be a sign of new growth (unusual for 15 year old tortoise).

@zovick , @Yvonne G please, could you take a look?

@Yingg

I don't know what would cause this shell issue, but the shell looks very unhealthy. Many of the scutes look as though they could be peeled off with very little effort.

Unfortunately, I do not know exactly how to treat this condition. Perhaps antibiotic cream like Neosporin could be applied to all the questionable areas for a month or more to see if it helps. Note that the athlete's foot creams are NOT antibiotic in nature and are NOT what I am recommending be tried.

 

[Yingg]

What is her lighting and heating set up?
How often do you soak her?
Does she have a waterdish available?

every other day for 30 min, water fish available, the sun is her lighting and heating. i mist her religiously throughout the day.

 

[Yingg]

You mentioned in your other thread that she has liver malfunction (hence the edema and yellowish neck skin color). Perhaps, scales and skin dryness is related to this. Gaps between scutes can be a sign of new growth (unusual for 15 year old tortoise).

@zovick , @Yvonne G please, could you take a look?

i'm not sure about the liver failure. the vet said we had to run tests. could you tell just by looking at her? and the gaps between her scutes have stayed for quite a while. when she was younger, she got them and they got filled in. now, not so much... (i have calcium supplements)

 

[Yingg]

@Yingg

I don't know what would cause this shell issue, but the shell looks very unhealthy. Many of the scutes look as though they could be peeled off with very little effort.

Unfortunately, I do not know exactly how to treat this condition. Perhaps antibiotic cream like Neosporin could be applied to all the questionable areas for a month or more to see if it helps. Note that the athlete's foot creams are NOT antibiotic in nature and are NOT what I am recommending be tried.

i will drop by CVS today for neosporin! the scutes are actually INSANELY hard (i did try gently rubbing around to see if it could come off and it would NOT at all. As in, it's really hard.) There's only one area where it could possibly peel, but that area is where she had a past injury and i don't believe it's fully healed. i'll make another thread for that soon so you'll likely see me around again ^^

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Don't try to forcefully peel of any, it will only slow down the healing process and possibly cause an infection.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

i'm not sure about the liver failure. the vet said we had to run tests. could you tell just by looking at her? and the gaps between her scutes have stayed for quite a while. when she was younger, she got them and they got filled in. now, not so much... (i have calcium supplements)

No, I can't tell for sure, or course. Her neck looks yellowish but it could be just lightning on the photo. And you have mentioned liver failure. I'm not a vet and don't pretend to be (and even if I was I would be very careful about diagnosis by photo).

I see some gaps between scutes filled yet there are some deeper and different looking. Perhaps this is the place of injury you mentioned in your post above.

As you are going to the vet for a beak trim, I think it's best to discuss the concerns with him.

 

[Yingg]

Don't try to forcefully peel of any, it will only slow down the healing process and possibly cause an infection.

yes of course i won't do it any more ^^

 

[Yingg]

No, I can't tell for sure, or course. Her neck looks yellowish but it could be just lightning on the photo. And you have mentioned liver failure. I'm not a vet and don't pretend to be (and even if I was I would be very careful about diagnosis by photo).

I see some gaps between scutes filled yet there are some deeper and different looking. Perhaps this is the place of injury you mentioned in your post above.

As you are going to the vet for a beak trim, I think it's best to discuss the concerns with him.

sadly it's not just the picture. she's pretty yellow in real life. though... she's always been yellow (?) at first i thought the edema was fat. i made her walk more and fed her a bit less. then i realized her weight wouldn't really go down and she didn't look visibly skinnier. i didn't think too much of it until the vet brought up the $600 blood testing to see why she had the edema. so the edema has been pretty gradual, gradual enough for me to think of it as fat. she's still pretty active, eats lots, has healthy poops and urates etc. i'm just worried because if she does have liver failure, how long does she have, and is she uncomfy etc etc. is it even curable?? sorry for the questions, i'm worried 😭

oh but the deep areas aren't places of injury. the injury would be the 1st image, on the edge of her shell. (right above her arm). she's still very active, very alert and not at all lazy at any point of the day unless she's sleeping. i'm still looking for a good vet in san jose california so if you know one, please feel free to tell me. thanks! (i made a thread about that too^^)

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

sadly it's not just the picture. she's pretty yellow in real life. though... she's always been yellow (?) at first i thought the edema was fat. i made her walk more and fed her a bit less. then i realized her weight wouldn't really go down and she didn't look visibly skinnier. i didn't think too much of it until the vet brought up the $600 blood testing to see why she had the edema. so the edema has been pretty gradual, gradual enough for me to think of it as fat. she's still pretty active, eats lots, has healthy poops and urates etc. i'm just worried because if she does have liver failure, how long does she have, and is she uncomfy etc etc. is it even curable?? sorry for the questions, i'm worried 😭

oh but the deep areas aren't places of injury. the injury would be the 1st image, on the edge of her shell. (right above her arm). she's still very active, very alert and not at all lazy at any point of the day unless she's sleeping. i'm still looking for a good vet in san jose california so if you know one, please feel free to tell me. thanks! (i made a thread about that too^^)

From your description it's not an acute liver failure and with good hydration and proper diet (low protein, high fiber, no sugary products like fruit, squashes and such) your tortoise should have a long and happy life.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

sadly it's not just the picture. she's pretty yellow in real life. though... she's always been yellow (?) at first i thought the edema was fat. i made her walk more and fed her a bit less. then i realized her weight wouldn't really go down and she didn't look visibly skinnier. i didn't think too much of it until the vet brought up the $600 blood testing to see why she had the edema. so the edema has been pretty gradual, gradual enough for me to think of it as fat. she's still pretty active, eats lots, has healthy poops and urates etc. i'm just worried because if she does have liver failure, how long does she have, and is she uncomfy etc etc. is it even curable?? sorry for the questions, i'm worried 😭

oh but the deep areas aren't places of injury. the injury would be the 1st image, on the edge of her shell. (right above her arm). she's still very active, very alert and not at all lazy at any point of the day unless she's sleeping. i'm still looking for a good vet in san jose california so if you know one, please feel free to tell me. thanks! (i made a thread about that too^^)

I do wish I could help you more here but admittedly her issues are a little out of my depth😣I agree that her shell isn’t looking the healthiest at the moment.

Ultimately if your husbandry is correct, you’re doing all you can do for her❤️I’m sure she’s not uncomfortable giving her behaviour and the fact she has a good appetite, if she was feeling sluggish or in any kind of pain I don’t think she’d want to be moving around much

I can see the first injury site you’re referring to but also noticed what looks like a few other tiny areas of damage? I know you’re going to a vet soon(hopefully you find a good one that knows how to treat torts) so just wanted to say it’s probably worth getting them to check those areas in particular, as well as the whole shell, hopefully they’ll be able to give you a better idea of her health and some possible causes for the issues you’re seeing. Wishing you all the best, definitely keep us updated!🙏🏻

 

[Yingg]

From your description it's not an acute liver failure and with good hydration and proper diet (low protein, high fiber, no sugary products like fruit, squashes and such) your tortoise should have a long and happy life.

oh low protein ? is it okay to feed mazuri LS tortoise food? i've heard the protein content is high. basically, how much protein is too much >< and if you have any good veggie suggestions with lots of fiber and low protein, please tell me! thank you very much. i don't believe it's acute liver failure either. then there's also the issue of the shell. do you know what could have caused it though? (and if liver failure causes dry shell?) thank you so much for your help!

 

[Yingg]

I do wish I could help you more here but admittedly her issues are a little out of my depth😣I agree that her shell isn’t looking the healthiest at the moment.

Ultimately if your husbandry is correct, you’re doing all you can do for her❤️I’m sure she’s not uncomfortable giving her behaviour and the fact she has a good appetite, if she was feeling sluggish or in any kind of pain I don’t think she’d want to be moving around much

I can see the first injury site you’re referring to but also noticed what looks like a few other tiny areas of damage? I know you’re going to a vet soon(hopefully you find a good one that knows how to treat torts) so just wanted to say it’s probably worth getting them to check those areas in particular, as well as the whole shell, hopefully they’ll be able to give you a better idea of her health and some possible causes for the issues you’re seeing. Wishing you all the best, definitely keep us updated!🙏🏻

yea those areas were from many years ago. they healed very nice. i let someone take care of her and their young children dropped her. it clipped off one of her back claws and it never grew back. those bits of the shell actually bled a LOT, though i wrapped it up and cleaned it daily for her. the shell grew back within a month and those white spots are left. though in the first image, that injury area is actually a bit dry? some of the shell is flaking off. i think the injury actually caused her shell to "loosen" there, and now it's just more obvious. anyway, she isn't bleeding anymore which is good. and she still loves her hibiscus ❤️ reminds me to go get some for her later.

i've gotta look for a good tortoise vet in san jose california. if you have an updated list please let me know, thank you so much for your help so far!🙏

 

[Yingg]

@Yingg

I don't know what would cause this shell issue, but the shell looks very unhealthy. Many of the scutes look as though they could be peeled off with very little effort.

Unfortunately, I do not know exactly how to treat this condition. Perhaps antibiotic cream like Neosporin could be applied to all the questionable areas for a month or more to see if it helps. Note that the athlete's foot creams are NOT antibiotic in nature and are NOT what I am recommending be tried.

hi this is the one i got, is it correct? how much do i apply and how often? thanks!

 

[Yvonne G]

If it were my tortoise I would daily rub in some cold pressed coconut oil, allow it to absorb for a half hour or so then polish it off with a clean absorbent cloth.

 

[Yingg]

If it were my tortoise I would daily rub in some cold pressed coconut oil, allow it to absorb for a half hour or so then polish it off with a clean absorbent cloth.

oh dang, i don't have pressed coconut oil. is there anything i could use as a substitute?

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

oh low protein ? is it okay to feed mazuri LS tortoise food? i've heard the protein content is high. basically, how much protein is too much >< and if you have any good veggie suggestions with lots of fiber and low protein, please tell me! thank you very much. i don't believe it's acute liver failure either. then there's also the issue of the shell. do you know what could have caused it though? (and if liver failure causes dry shell?) thank you so much for your help!

Mazuri LS has better fiber/protein ratio than "classic" Mazuri 5M21. ZooMed Grassland is good too. Basicaly, most of the wild growing weeds are high in fibers, low in sugars and protein. Opposite to grocery store greens. Also clover and alfalfa grass are high in protein, if I remember.

There is a small list of weeds here (Recommended foods section):

The Tortoise Myth-Busters: Episode 7

Fruit for Arid Habitat Tortoises - 'Treat' or Tragedy?A Centrochelys sulcata gorges on ripe water melons... what are the risks in this?Keepers are, understandably, often baffled and confused by the contradictory advice they will undoubtedly encounter. It's everywhere, especially online in social...

www.tortoisetrust.com

Also mulberry, hibiscus leaves and young grape leaves are good addition. You can get Testudo Seed Mix from Tortoise Supply and grow a good set of edible plants indoors or outdoors as well.

As for the shell - I don't know, honestly. Any organ malfunction impact metabolism and in theory can affect new shell growth, skin and so. You can apply coconut oil as Yvonne has suggested to "condition" the shell yet if there is an underlying serious problem it won't do wonder.

 

[Yingg]

Mazuri LS has better fiber/protein ratio than "classic" Mazuri 5M21. ZooMed Grassland is good too. Basicaly, most of the wild growing weeds are high in fibers, low in sugars and protein. Opposite to grocery store greens. Also clover and alfalfa grass are high in protein, if I remember.

There is a small list of weeds here (Recommended foods section):

The Tortoise Myth-Busters: Episode 7

Fruit for Arid Habitat Tortoises - 'Treat' or Tragedy?A Centrochelys sulcata gorges on ripe water melons... what are the risks in this?Keepers are, understandably, often baffled and confused by the contradictory advice they will undoubtedly encounter. It's everywhere, especially online in social...

www.tortoisetrust.com

Also mulberry, hibiscus leaves and young grape leaves are good addition. You can get Testudo Seed Mix from Tortoise Supply and grow a good set of edible plants indoors or outdoors as well.

As for the shell - I don't know, honestly. Any organ malfunction impact metabolism and in theory can affect new shell growth, skin and so. You can apply coconut oil as Yvonne has suggested to "condition" the shell yet if there is an underlying serious problem it won't do wonder.

oh, that makes sense. thank you, i've harvested some hibiscus leaves from a local bush! no flowers though, sadly. i don't have coconut oil though, are there other options? i'll probably take her to the vet once i get over covid haha.