Enclosure size criticism

[Chubbs the tegu]

Hey guys and gals,

Just sitting here having a couple cold ones enjoying this beautiful weather!

Now this is probably gonna get some ppls panties up in a bunch but here we go!

I see a lot of ppl all over members for having a smallish enclosure.. im not saying a 40 gallon for an adult Russian but lets say a 6x2.
Now i hear a lot of “if u cant give it a 8x4 then rehome it to someone that can”

I see a lot of these new members love their tort with all there heart. My question is .. is it better to let them keep it in the smallish enclosure and be cared for correctly in every other way? Or end up maybe being rehomed over and over into homes who are not going to come to TFO for info and have way worse care?

Ill sit back now and watch the chaos hahaha

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Overall I think it is hard to determine the minimum size for an enclosure, even though it would be nice to do so. But, I also believe that the bigger the better for many reasons.

Also, re-homing to a good home is hard and takes much effort.

But I will be interested in hearing others opinions.

 

[Chubbs the tegu]

Overall I think it is hard to determine the minimum size for an enclosure, even though it would be nice to do so. But, I also believe that the bigger the better for many reasons.

Also, re-homing to a good home is hard and takes much effort.

But I will be interested in hearing others opinions.

Oh i agree as big as possible. Im just saying for the members that cant actually do the 4x8. Finding a good home is definitely not easy .. all ppl are not honest about how they’re gonna keep them

 

[wellington]

Depends on the size of the enclosure. Personally, I don't think the sizes some people mention is necessary. My leopards have lots of room and use about half of it. But I also don't think keeping them in an enclosure that is to small is good for the torts health. If that can't do better than what is too small, then yes, they need to not be selfish and rehome.
A 4x8 for a RF is way to small and unhealthy for the poor animal.
A 3x6 is doable for a Russian but there are many ways to add more room, so they should try.
If the too small enclosure is only for a few winter months and then they have a bigger summer home, then the small enclosure can be tolerated.
I'm also in the mind set that you can have any tortoise you want, no matter where you live, as long as you have the means $$ and room in land/enclosure.

 

[Chubbs the tegu]

Depends on the size of the enclosure. Personally, I don't think the sizes some people mention is necessary. My leopards have lots of room and use about half of it. But I also don't think keeping them in an enclosure that is to small is good for the torts health. If that can't do better than what is too small, then yes, they need to not be selfish and rehome.
A 4x8 for a RF is way to small and unhealthy for the poor animal.
A 3x6 is doable for a Russian but there are many ways to add more room, so they should try.
If the too small enclosure is only for a few winter months and then they have a bigger summer home, then the small enclosure can be tolerated.
I'm also in the mind set that you can have any tortoise you want, no matter where you live, as long as you have the means $$ and room in land/enclosure.

Im talking if the conditions are not deplorable. Some of these new members buy their tort from a pet store and think because its a pet store they know what they’re talking about. Then come on here and get crucified when they say they can only provide a 6x2 at most.. after the pet store prob told them a 40 gallon.

 

[wellington]

Im talking if the conditions are not deplorable. Some of these new members buy their tort from a pet store and think because its a pet store they know what they’re talking about. Then come on here and get crucified when they say they can only provide a 6x2 at most.. after the pet store prob told them a 40 gallon.

If the 6 feet is not counting the stupid hide area on some of those junk tortoise houses they sell, then it probably is doable as long as a big enough water dish can be used and the tortoise can still get around it. For anything bigger then a Russian then no, it's not doable. Even some female Russians, it's not doable. My tiny male Russian, likely doable. However, when the poor thing is constantly digging and climbing the walls, well, then it's not doable.
Specially the WC ones at those trash pet stores. They have lived a big portion of their life roaming many miles. Now they are stuck in a tiny box.
CB and from a hatchling, could do better, as they would not have had the room to begin with.
If you think about the WC and what they came from in having no boundaries, a 3 or 4x8 isn't asking for much.
Too easy to research the internet before buying a tortoise or any animal.

 

[Chubbs the tegu]

If the 6 feet is not counting the stupid hide area on some of those junk tortoise houses they sell, then it probably is doable as long as a big enough water dish can be used and the tortoise can still get around it. For anything bigger then a Russian then no, it's not doable. Even some female Russians, it's not doable. My tiny male Russian, likely doable. However, when the poor thing is constantly digging and climbing the walls, well, then it's not doable.
Specially the WC ones at those trash pet stores. They have lived a big portion of their life roaming many miles. Now they are stuck in a tiny box.
CB and from a hatchling, could do better, as they would not have had the room to begin with.
If you think about the WC and what they came from in having no boundaries, a 3 or 4x8 isn't asking for much.
Too easy to research the internet before buying a tortoise or any animal.

Btw… i knew u would be the first in here ready to throw down hahhahahga chicagonian

 

[wellington]

Btw… i knew u would be the first in here ready to throw down hahhahahga chicagonian

I learned from Tom from back in the day. Bahaha.

 

[Chubbs the tegu]

I learned from Tom from back in the day. Bahaha.

Whos Tom? 😂

 

[Chubbs the tegu]

Whos Tom? 😂

Oooh the guy that pushed me to start skim reading haha

 

[TammyJ]

I would call Tom, but I am not sure which Tom you are both talking about 🤔

 

[wellington]

I would call Tom, but I am not sure which Tom you are both talking about 🤔

Really? Is there another Tom?

 

[wellington]

Okay, the new guy that you are watching with your popcorn? Grossly too small enclosure.

 

[turtlesteve]

I consider this topic to be very species dependent. Russian and hermann’s tortoises are particularly active and benefit more from a large enclosure. They use the entire enclosure pretty much every day they are awake. I do not view 4x8 as a “hard” requirement but the more they have, the happier they will be.

If someone really wants a tortoise that will do well in a small enclosure (say 2x6 as you suggest) I would tell them to get a captive bred Speke’s hingeback or perhaps a male Indian star from a small bloodline. Less common species like Egyptians or spider tortoises also would work. None of these are really ideal beginner tortoises but the hinge backs are supposedly quite easy when CB. But more importantly none of these tortoises seem to roam like hermanns or Russian tortoises.

 

[Yvonne G]

Really? Is there another Tom?

Tom Turkey. . . Tom Thumb. . .

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

This is an interesting topic and raises some valid questions, I do always tend to recommend the appropriate sizes but will sometimes add, if space is an issue, to go the absolute biggest they can go(which usually means diy or a custom build) for the most part I hope that even then, that won’t necessarily be the tortoises sized enclosure forever, circumstances can always hopefully change for the better, perhaps they find someone with great husbandry and a larger space set up, perhaps they themselves move and can set up a bigger space.
If they mention a size that I’d consider beyond cruel for whatever the species was, I couldn’t in good conscience tell them to house it like that.

My moms partner brought a red foot over ten years ago, was ridiculously ill informed by the store he got her from, said she’d probably only need something like a 6x2 as she grows.

People all over the UK are housing them in far too small a set up, there’s a diamond few who actually have the perfect set up for red foots here, our climate is no good for them, only the height of summer which doesn’t last long, that of course means no matter what, huge indoor set ups are needed, set ups that pet stores here know all too well people don’t have the room to provide. It goes for a lot of tortoise species here tbh. Again there’s a few who I’m sure have put a lot of time and effort into building their own zoo like habitats in big out buildings n such, I remember being linked to an amazing uk owner on here once, he’s no longer active and his name escapes me, but what he’d built was absolutely incredible! It was a literal huge zoo like habitat for a small group of red foots, very impressive stuff!
Sadly, for the most part, red foots can’t be provided with a large enough area that holds a humid tropical environment indoors year round😞which is ultimately how we’ve ended up in a less than ideal situation ourselves, the viv our red foot was being kept in was so tiny and failing rapidly, time was of the essence, a suitable new home here just wasn’t available and still to this day isn’t, not only is size set ups an issue here, the husbandry advice given out for them can be pretty dire, I’ve struggled finding many uk owners that are meeting all the needs of their red foot’s, from diet, to humidity, uv.. the lot.
We had no choice but to provide the absolute biggest space we possibly can for her, granted she’s pretty small for an adult red foot due to either stunting or questionable genetics..even still I’d love her in something bigger, right now the absolute best we can do for her, is provide the biggest space we could and make sure that all her other needs are being met perfectly, she has perfect temps, humidity, correct maintenance as in no misters, a wonderfully varied diet, correct uv, correct substrate and a few goods soaks every week.

Because of our position I do sympathise with new members this happens to. I do my best to advise with the tortoises best interest in mind, whilst trying not to pass judgement if they need to house in something just a bit smaller than ideal, until a better circumstance presents itself, providing all other needs are being met, sometimes there’s no other options😔

In a perfect world I wish everyone would do a copious amount of research when considering an animal that could outlive them in years, preventing the situations all together😣

 

[Anastasia 22]

Hey guys and gals,

Just sitting here having a couple cold ones enjoying this beautiful weather!

Now this is probably gonna get some ppls panties up in a bunch but here we go!

I see a lot of ppl all over members for having a smallish enclosure.. im not saying a 40 gallon for an adult Russian but lets say a 6x2.
Now i hear a lot of “if u cant give it a 8x4 then rehome it to someone that can”

I see a lot of these new members love their tort with all there heart. My question is .. is it better to let them keep it in the smallish enclosure and be cared for correctly in every other way? Or end up maybe being rehomed over and over into homes who are not going to come to TFO for info and have way worse care?

Ill sit back now and watch the chaos hahaha

I have one bad example of the keeping tortoise in a small aquarium. Legs muscles atrophy, lethargy etc. I am happy that she didn't end up in another small fish tank that pet store people recommend me to buy for her.

 

[Anastasia 22]

That is 40 gallon terrarium. And that's exactly what Petco recommend to get for a tortoise..... (everything I have inside of it is artificial).

 

[wellington]

That is 40 gallon terrarium. And that's exactly what Petco recommend to get for a tortoise..... (everything I have inside of it is artificial).

Yep and that's cruelty for anything over a hatchling.
I rescued a leopard kept in a small aquarium. Couldn't walk and was dwarfed terribly. One it got proper care and hydrotherapy for its muscle/walking, he caught up in size and walks like a champ.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

If we talk about permanent indoors living, then 8x4 is probably a good goal for smaller species. Exact width/length ratio may vary. However, for a 7-8 inch tortoise 3 feet deep wide enclosure is much less comfortable - just because hides, food and water dishes should match tortoise size. There is not much space left for turning around without stepping into something. That said 6x3 is perhaps a bare minimum to allow some exploration, but not viable in a long term (for a 4 inch Egyptian or smaller Hermanns it will probably work).

As jaizei pointed out somewhere, a well designed smaller enclosure is better than a "bare-bones" larger one. I would like to see more tips on this (like burying hides in the substrate to allow walking over, hanging plants instead of placing them in substrate etc.)