Enclosure

[Chipchip]

Hi guys!

I have a Hermann tortoise approx couple months old, how do I know when I need to upgrade the size of his tank? Right now his enclosure is 20L

Length:30”
Width:20”
Height:20”

If I buy a new one what would be a nice brand? Or I can build a new one using ikea bookcase? (Just curious question)

 

[TammyJ]

Hi and welcome. Please post pictures of your tortoise showing the tortoise in the tank, and we will be able to help you more.

 

[Chipchip]

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hi! I think you already start thinking about the upgrade. It will take some time to plan and make a new one.
Most of the branded enclosures for sale are too small or pretty expensive (if we look at PVC enclosures). Good options for semi-DIY are Ikea bookcases (will require some work on waterproofing and a greenhouse top to retain humidity and temperatures) and raised garden beds (there are kits out of two 4x4 plastic beds with covers, but you will need to make a floor of some kind).

Some suggestions for you current enclosure, if you don't mind:
1. Swap food and water dishes - he can use larger water dish for self-soaking and drinking.
2. Looks like a lot of calcium powder in the food dish. A small pinch once or twice a week is enough. You can also put a cuttlefish bone in the enclosure so he can bite some calcium when he needs it.
3. Substrate looks either like aspen bedding or dried out cypress mulch. Mulch is fine to use, but aspen shavings are too dry. If you spray the substrate, then it would be better to pour water in corners instead.
4. Tin foil works better than a towel for covering the mesh top - no risks of fire and it doesn't absorb water.

 

[Chipchip]

Hi! I think you already start thinking about the upgrade. It will take some time to plan and make a new one.
Most of the branded enclosures for sale are too small or pretty expensive (if we look at PVC enclosures). Good options for semi-DIY are Ikea bookcases (will require some work on waterproofing and a greenhouse top to retain humidity and temperatures) and raised garden beds (there are kits out of two 4x4 plastic beds with covers, but you will need to make a floor of some kind).

Some suggestions for you current enclosure, if you don't mind:
1. Swap food and water dishes - he can use larger water dish for self-soaking and drinking.
2. Looks like a lot of calcium powder in the food dish. A small pinch once or twice a week is enough. You can also put a cuttlefish bone in the enclosure so he can bite some calcium when he needs it.
3. Substrate looks either like aspen bedding or dried out cypress mulch. Mulch is fine to use, but aspen shavings are too dry. If you spray the substrate, then it would be better to pour water in corners instead.
4. Tin foil works better than a towel for covering the mesh top - no risks of fire and it doesn't absorb water.

Hey! Thank you so much! I’ll take a lot of time think about the enclosure, I just didn’t know if not upgrading the enclosure will limit his growth.
What temp in the water dish is good for him to self soak? I used filtered room temperature water, sometimes the light heats the water to warm.
I use cypress mulch, how many times shd I spray water in a day? I usually do 3 times a day.
Where do u suggest I get cuttlefish fish bone from?
If I pour water over corner I usually mix the whole bedding to get it equally moist if that’s fine.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

1. A small enclosure will affect his health at some point. Tortoises walk miles in the wild and their body is adapted for that. Lack of movement is bad for their food digestion and muscle development. Baby tortoises tend to hide and sleep a lot, but as their activity increases with age a good sized enclosure is becoming more important.
2. Room temperature water should be fine, it will warm up in the enclosure anyway. I add lukewarm (88-90F) water when changing (otherwise, 0.3 gallons dish takes forever to heat up).
3. To keep humidity high you don't have to spray the substrate at all. Just pour water in the corners once in a week or so. Make sure that tank mesh top is covered. Mixing top and bottom layers can be done once or twice a month and that's fine.
4. Cuttlefish bone is sold for birds in pet shops (white oval thing). Sometimes, broken ovals are sold with a discount (not suitable for birds anymore, but fine for torts).

 

[Chipchip]

Hi! I think you already start thinking about the upgrade. It will take some time to plan and make a new one.
Most of the branded enclosures for sale are too small or pretty expensive (if we look at PVC enclosures). Good options for semi-DIY are Ikea bookcases (will require some work on waterproofing and a greenhouse top to retain humidity and temperatures) and raised garden beds (there are kits out of two 4x4 plastic beds with covers, but you will need to make a floor of some kind).

Some suggestions for you current enclosure, if you don't mind:
1. Swap food and water dishes - he can use larger water dish for self-soaking and drinking.
2. Looks like a lot of calcium powder in the food dish. A small pinch once or twice a week is enough. You can also put a cuttlefish bone in the enclosure so he can bite some calcium when he needs it.
3. Substrate looks either like aspen bedding or dried out cypress mulch. Mulch is fine to use, but aspen shavings are too dry. If you spray the substrate, then it would be better to pour water in corners instead.
4. Tin foil works better than a towel for covering the mesh top - no risks of fire and it doesn't absorb water.

Hi Alex,
Chippie is growing really fast it’s been 10 months since I have her and I feel like I will have to upgrade the enclosure now so I was just rereading what u said about upgrading it and what to consider..
Right now I have on my list:
Natural slate rocks
Reptile basking platform
Some plants to put in enclosure
(I’m still finding what kinds of plants I can put in there)

But the enclosure is a problem, if I get a bookcase from ikea, I will have to waterproof it as u said and I have to look into that, but I have no idea how I could hang the uv liner bulb and the basking light, so u think a pvc enclosure will work? But this time with a front opening and a screen top? I was thinking a 50 gallon tank..

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

But the enclosure is a problem, if I get a bookcase from ikea, I will have to waterproof it as u said and I have to look into that, but I have no idea how I could hang the uv liner bulb and the basking light, so u think a pvc enclosure will work? But this time with a front opening and a screen top? I was thinking a 50 gallon tank..

Hi! Personally for the money the tanks can cost for the time you use them, I don’t think they’re worth it.
I think it’s a compact uv bulb you’re using? They aren’t the best choice unfortunately.

Hopefully this housing thread I made below might be a useful read for you! I cover correct equipment(lights, heating and the right uv type), levels, sizing, the importance of a closed chamber, substrates, appropriately maintaining humidity, there’s lots of visual examples for everything and a really handy diet list to check out!

Housing young Russian/Herman

Hello there! In this thread, I’m going to include some information on an effective way to tackle a starter set up/a way you can build a bigger size once your baby is an adult. I know it looks a lot to go over, I like to make sure all bases are covered, I’m happy to break down any information...

tortoiseforum.org

This one is also really good to familiarise with, it goes more into the uv choice, it will help you avoid the wrong bulbs, substrates, housing etc, I also always encourage double checking new purchases on the forum before buying

Common keeping errors

Hello everyone! I’d been a long time lurker on this site long before joining just under a year ago now, over that time I’ve seen these husbandry issues come up time and time again, sometimes with dire consequences☹️ I thought this thread might serve as a good visual guide for these common...

tortoiseforum.org

Hope they help! Always happy to try and answer further questions

 

[Chipchip]

Hi! Personally for the money the tanks can cost for the time you use them, I don’t think they’re worth it.
I think it’s a compact uv bulb you’re using? They aren’t the best choice unfortunately.

Hopefully this housing thread I made below might be a useful read for you! I cover correct equipment(lights, heating and the right uv type), levels, sizing, the importance of a closed chamber, substrates, appropriately maintaining humidity, there’s lots of visual examples for everything and a really handy diet list to check out!

Housing young Russian/Herman

Hello there! In this thread, I’m going to include some information on an effective way to tackle a starter set up/a way you can build a bigger size once your baby is an adult. I know it looks a lot to go over, I like to make sure all bases are covered, I’m happy to break down any information...

tortoiseforum.org

This one is also really good to familiarise with, it goes more into the uv choice, it will help you avoid the wrong bulbs, substrates, housing etc, I also always encourage double checking new purchases on the forum before buying

Common keeping errors

Hello everyone! I’d been a long time lurker on this site long before joining just under a year ago now, over that time I’ve seen these husbandry issues come up time and time again, sometimes with dire consequences☹️ I thought this thread might serve as a good visual guide for these common...

tortoiseforum.org

Hope they help! Always happy to try and answer further questions

I use the Arcadia t5 for the UV light, the only problem I have is I might really just go with the bookshelf, but the only problem would be knowing how to hang the lights down, thank you for attaching that link it’s really helpful and I have most of the stuff already.. I believe if I get a bookshelf I’ll have to get a water based liquid sealent and a pond liner?

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

I use the Arcadia t5 for the UV light, the only problem I have is I might really just go with the bookshelf, but the only problem would be knowing how to hang the lights down, thank you for attaching that link it’s really helpful and I have most of the stuff already.. I believe if I get a bookshelf I’ll have to get a water based liquid sealent and a pond liner?

Ok brilliant that’s one of the best out there, there’s some examples in the link on how to mount the lights, you can make your own stands with minimal diy needed. For the uv, you could take a piece of timber wood, screw hooks into it, then on the opposite side mount the uv, then use chains to hang from the hooks and stand to your desired height, hang it as close to your basking as possiblehopefully the pictures below kind of help explain what I mean


You can screw the stand itself into the bookcase. I’d personally hang it so it’s more the one end, next to the basking, then any ambient lighting/CHE in the middle.

Yep sealant and pond liner will do the trick in protecting your base! You might even get away with just the pond liner(so long as it’s all up the sides and secured)but always good to have an additional protective layer

 

[Chipchip]

Ok brilliant that’s one of the best out there, there’s some examples in the link on how to mount the lights, you can make your own stands with minimal diy needed. For the uv, you could take a piece of timber wood, screw hooks into it, then on the opposite side mount the uv, then use chains to hang from the hooks and stand to your desired height, hang it as close to your basking as possiblehopefully the pictures below kind of help explain what I mean
View attachment 380714
View attachment 380717
You can screw the stand itself into the bookcase. I’d personally hang it so it’s more the one end, next to the basking, then any ambient lighting/CHE in the middle.

Yep sealant and pond liner will do the trick in protecting your base! You might even get away with just the pond liner(so long as it’s all up the sides and secured)but always good to have an additional protective layer

Thank you so much this helps a lot, it’s a great reference!! I found some screws that came with the light I’ll figure it out how to use it but where would u find a stand like this? I don’t think it comes with the uv light

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Thank you so much this helps a lot, it’s a great reference!! I found some screws that came with the light I’ll figure it out how to use it but where would u find a stand like this? I don’t think it comes with the uv light

No problem! Yeah there should be some metal clips that came with it too, the clips screw into the wood, then the fitting should click into place. For the stand, I’d just get yourself some pieces of timber wood to screw together, then get yourself some ‘heavy duty angle brackets’ to make it secure, something like this below, you should find them on Amazon

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Oh also, heads up on the bookcase, if you’re struggling to find one deep set enough, as in having high enough sides to allow for substrate depth whilst also not being too low to prevent escape missions, some people screw some wood around the edge to create a ‘lip’ around the top, it acts as a barrier to stop the tortoise climbing over top, would also work great in pinning down the top of the liner! They also sometimes use corners to mission impossible themselves out of thereso corner caps are a good idea! I’ve included some pictures below to hopefully show you what I mean haha


Sigh the corner cap at the bottom of the second one.

 

[Chipchip]

Oh also, heads up on the bookcase, if you’re struggling to find one deep set enough, as in having high enough sides to allow for substrate depth whilst also not being too low to prevent escape missions, some people screw some wood around the edge to create a ‘lip’ around the top, it acts as a barrier to stop the tortoise climbing over top, would also work great in pinning down the top of the liner! They also sometimes use corners to mission impossible themselves out of thereso corner caps are a good idea! I’ve included some pictures below to hopefully show you what I mean haha
View attachment 380723
View attachment 380724
Sigh the corner cap at the bottom of the second one.

Ah how did I never thought about that, yes chippie always climbs up on top of the hideout just love stressing me out I think I’ll get one of those as well, right now I’m just thinking how the screws and hook work to hang the uv lights and the chains to hang the floodlight, I see a photo in the guide ppl just wrap the chains around the angled stand, that’s fine??

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Ah how did I never thought about that, yes chippie always climbs up on top of the hideout just love stressing me out I think I’ll get one of those as well, right now I’m just thinking how the screws and hook work to hang the uv lights and the chains to hang the floodlight, I see a photo in the guide ppl just wrap the chains around the angled stand, that’s fine??

lol they all absolutely love keeping us on our toes! Especially Russians I swearthey’re so funny!
It’s hard to see in the picture, but notice how on the photo there’s both a hook in the timber wood the uv is mounted to, and one in the makeshift stand? That’s what you’ll be hanging the chain on, you’ll have to work out the length you need once you’ve got everything in place and the depth of you substrate accounted for.

Then for the basking, personally instead of wrapping the chain, I’d hang it more like this

Wrapping it could potentially work if you have something like this clipping multiple of the links together so you know there’s zero chance of it unwrapping and falling downwards


Just make sure all your hooks are very firmly screwed in and your stands are strong.

You could technically go this kind of route with the uv, but there wouldn’t be any room to adjust the height once you’ve made the stand, unless you suspended chains from it.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

There’s also this kind of option, imagine two wooden pieces screwed either side of your base with something like this screwed in the top facing inwards of the enclosure

You then rest a pole between the fittings, the pole could run either in the middle like the photo below(depending where you need your lights&bulbs to hang)or you could have multiple shorter poles running vertical across instead of horizontal(hope this is making sense)

Just always make sure to use the chains to hang, don’t leave it by just the wire.

To hang the chain, you could wrap it round, use something like this to secure

Then hook it onto the fitting

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hi Alex,
Chippie is growing really fast it’s been 10 months since I have her and I feel like I will have to upgrade the enclosure now so I was just rereading what u said about upgrading it and what to consider..
Right now I have on my list:
Natural slate rocks
Reptile basking platform
Some plants to put in enclosure
(I’m still finding what kinds of plants I can put in there)

But the enclosure is a problem, if I get a bookcase from ikea, I will have to waterproof it as u said and I have to look into that, but I have no idea how I could hang the uv liner bulb and the basking light, so u think a pvc enclosure will work? But this time with a front opening and a screen top? I was thinking a 50 gallon tank..

Hello!
I'm glad that Chippie is doing well!

50 gallon tank isn't an option (I doubt you want to scale up enclosures every few months). Aim for something more permanent or reusable. Bookshelf is a good option, but for the next couple of years you will need a "closed chamber" (e.g. greenhouse top) to keep higher humidity and more stable temperatures. Check the prices for expanded PVC sheets - it can be cheaper if you account for pond liners and such, have tools and will to build it yourself. Also, you can build only the base out of PVC with top made of corrugated plastic (or the same portable greenhouse). As PVC will last for many years, makes sense to build a 4x8 ft. or larger enclosure, if room space allows.

 

[Chipchip]

Ok brilliant that’s one of the best out there, there’s some examples in the link on how to mount the lights, you can make your own stands with minimal diy needed. For the uv, you could take a piece of timber wood, screw hooks into it, then on the opposite side mount the uv, then use chains to hang from the hooks and stand to your desired height, hang it as close to your basking as possiblehopefully the pictures below kind of help explain what I mean
View attachment 380714
View attachment 380717
You can screw the stand itself into the bookcase. I’d personally hang it so it’s more the one end, next to the basking, then any ambient lighting/CHE in the middle.

Yep sealant and pond liner will do the trick in protecting your base! You might even get away with just the pond liner(so long as it’s all up the sides and secured)but always good to have an additional protective layer

I got some wood pieces and the bookshelf, and plan to build it later today! I really want to know what kind of plants I can put in tho, bc I have read a link from this forum also saying spider plants r great but the flower or sprouts r toxic so I have to cut them off once they sprout, but what other plants can I put?

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

I got some wood pieces and the bookshelf, and plan to build it later today! I really want to know what kind of plants I can put in tho, bc I have read a link from this forum also saying spider plants r great but the flower or sprouts r toxic so I have to cut them off once they sprout, but what other plants can I put?

A lot of plants, actually (check thetortoisetable.org.uk and filter by safety). Besides spider plants, popular options are hosta, carex, boston fern. Chia is relatively easy to grow from seeds.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

I got some wood pieces and the bookshelf, and plan to build it later today! I really want to know what kind of plants I can put in tho, bc I have read a link from this forum also saying spider plants r great but the flower or sprouts r toxic so I have to cut them off once they sprout, but what other plants can I put?

Yeah do cut off the sprouts in the enclosure itself, they are a really good choice though because they are hardy! Providing tortoise doesn’t destroy it firstit’s best to get one established outside of the enclosure as your mother plant, let her sprout babies, wait till they’re a decent size, then place the bottom of them in water, in a few weeks you’ll see roots at the bottom, they’re then ready to be planted and your mother plant will keep giving you an endless supply

A lot of plants, actually (check thetortoisetable.org.uk and filter by safety). Besides spider plants, popular options are hosta, carex, boston fern. Chia is relatively easy to grow from seeds.

some good suggestions here too!