eye problems - what am I doing wrong?

[katz2711]

Hello everyone,

I have two Russian Tortoises for about a month now, so I am new to tortoise keeping. I thought I read enough on the topic, but something does not seem right.

I bought them from turtlesource.com and they both live in this habitat:
Habitat

However, I have plans to separate them as soon as I have a new enclosure built (I read that it is better to separate them). They will also be outside during the summer and I already have seeds for edible landscaping.

The tortoises are captive bred “juveniles” according to the website and are about 3 inches big. They are too young to identify whether they are male or female.

I have a 100W heat/UVB lamp installed (Zoomed brand) and the temperature is in the mid 90’s (night temperature goes to 65F when the lamp is off). I added some terrarium stones under the light so they have a basking spot that reflects the heat nicely. The light is on from 5am to 8pm and I feed them around 5pm every day (unfortunately I am not home when they are most active). I usually leave the food in there for about 20 min but they never seem to eat for that long. I try to provide them with a varied diet including spring mix, fresh cactus pads, kale, collard greens, etc. I also add some calcium powder over their greens about 1x per week.

I am not using the night time heating pad that was shipped with the habitat as I have read that it leads to irregular growth in tortoises.

They always have fresh water and a cuttle bone available.

Currently I have the cypress bedding in the enclosure that came with the habitat set. I am thinking to switch to coconut husk for better humidity.

I soak them at least 2x per week in shallow warm water and they regularly do their “business”. I also have some spaghnum moss in the enclosure that was shipped with them and they nibble on it when I spray it wet.

Now for the problem: I have noticed that one tortoise keeps rubbing its eyes and also pulls its head into its shell at times, which looks pretty painful to me. I have not noticed any bubbles or liquid around its nose. The left eye appeared to be closed a couple days in a row, but when I soaked the tortoise it was able to open it. Both eyes appeared to be a bit swollen. It also does not seem as interested in feeding and I have to place its food right in front of it so it will eat. So far it has not lost any weight though. I figured it was an eye infection and ordered Terramycin. I have been treating its eyes with this 1x daily and it slowly seems to get better. The other tortoise does rub its eyes only occasionally and seems to be more active.

Both tortoises do dig into the substrate a lot, but I read that this is due to their young age.

Please let me know what I need to change so my tortoise gets better. I would really appreciate the advice as I want to be able to provide them with everything they need.

Thank you!

 

[RianSeeking]

Just one thought: Do they have a heat gradient? In other words, do they have enough space to move away from the 90 degrees into a cooler spot during the day?

Also, my Russians tend to get a little too dry if even their basking spot goes too much above 92.

 

[dmmj]

I don't personally encounter a lot of eye problems in russians, only once when my female was sick with an RI, since they are not showing any RI symptoms I would think they are either to dry, or some eye irritant from their digging.

 

[katz2711]

They do, I think. If you look at the picture of the habitat, I have the lamp over the same spot as on the picture on the open end of the enclosure so they could go to the area with the top over it, but I have to admit that I never see them do that.

 

[RianSeeking]

I'm just wondering if a constant day time temp of mid nineties might be a ttch too hot. You could try raising your lamp a little and see.

Also, a lot of good tortoise keepers recommend temp guns so you can see how the gradient in your enclosure is doing.

 

[CtTortoiseMom]

I just want to start by saying I am not an expert like most on here. I think a trip to the vet may be needed. What makes me nervous is that you just got them a month ago and have no idea what they were exposed to prior to your purchase. Also, we took our tort to the vet a couple weeks after we got her and it really took a weight off. Just knowing that a thorough exam and fecal test ( to check for worms) was done by a knowlegable person and a baseline was created for her health records really helped us. In addition it also created an extra resource. I have called the office a couple times to ask if things that our tort does is "normal". They alway's call back and ease my new tortoise mommy nerves every time. Just a thought, wishing them a speedy recovery!

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Katz2711:

Welcome to the forum!! May we know your name and where you are?

It sounds to me like something is irritating his eyes. Do you have the light positioned at the correct and recommended distance from the floor of the habitat? Too much light can harm their eyes (sort of like snow blindness).

I don't think you need to separate the tortoises, but you DO need to provide them with a bigger habitat. Russian tortoises really like to wander and do well with a lot of room. Also, you can have the light at one end of a larger habitat and the tortoises can get away from it easier.

The eye ointment is a good idea, but try to figure out what's causing the problem in the first place.

 

[katz2711]

Hi Katz2711:

Welcome to the forum!! May we know your name and where you are?

It sounds to me like something is irritating his eyes. Do you have the light positioned at the correct and recommended distance from the floor of the habitat? Too much light can harm their eyes (sort of like snow blindness).

I don't think you need to separate the tortoises, but you DO need to provide them with a bigger habitat. Russian tortoises really like to wander and do well with a lot of room. Also, you can have the light at one end of a larger habitat and the tortoises can get away from it easier.

The eye ointment is a good idea, but try to figure out what's causing the problem in the first place.

Hi, my name is Katrina and unfortunately I am located in TN, but close to the GA border. Anyone know any good reptile vets around Atlanta?

The distance between the lamp and the floor of the habitat is 10 inches. Is that acceptable?

I have been spraying the substrate 2x daily to make it a bit more humid for them and they seem to like that. This weekend I will be changing the substrate to coconut husk which is hopefully an improvement.

A bigger enclosure is definitely in planning. Also what is a good place to by a good thermometer at a good price, because mine is cheap and seems to fluctuate a bit too much to be accurate.

Thanks for everyone's advice, I will try to post some pictures of my torts this weekend!

 

[Yvonne G]

I don't know the directions on your particular bulb, but usually the distance is 12".

 

[Floof]

I can't comment much on this, as I haven't had experience with eye problems in reptiles, but I can confirm that 12-18" is the recommended distance for the bulb, with 12" being minimum. A good thermometer for you to get is an infrared thermometer, or "temp gun." The PE-1 by Pro Exotics is good, I have one myself and love it, and it's about $25-30. You can get it online from reptile supply companies like The Bean Farm.

I'm no expert when it comes to tortoises, but I do know that an improperly mounted UVB bulb can cause serious problems in any UVB-dependent reptile. Raise your bulb up a few inches and make sure it's pointing straight down so the bulb's parallel with the substrate (which I'm guessing it is, as the kit comes with a lamp stand just for this purpose, but still good to check!).

Another thing that occurs to me is that polished river rock, especially if it's light colored, will reflect a good deal of that light, and might be adding to the problem. You might consider ditching the river rock and replacing it with something less... reflective. A slate tile, which you can pick up at Home Depot or other home improvement stores, is perfect for this function. Their dark, textured surfaces prevent that intense reflection of light (or, really, any reflection of light; I use it alone as bearded dragon substrate, and have never seen slate reflect light). They also make good feeding surfaces/rocks.. And they're cheap, too, which is always a bonus!

Good luck!!!

 

[Tom]

Here's my take on a few things:
1. Your temps. We need more info. There are four temps to be concerned with. cool side, warm side, hot spot (hottest spot directly under the light bulb), and night temps. I think 90-95 is fine directly under your light fixture for a russian. Normally I would think that 65 is fine as a night temp for a 3" russian, but since you are having a problem, I'd keep it warmer. 75ish would be good. You definitely need a better means of assessing your temps. Whatever the manufacturer recommends for the height of your bulb is a good starting point, but I always fine tune the distance with a thermometer. Basking spot of 95-100 is what I shoot for with russians. I also like to have a flat rock or piece of slate directly under the basking light. It hold and disperses heat better when they are not on it, it safely warms their belly when they are on it, it wears their nails down naturally, and it makes measuring the temp much more accurate.

2. 20 minutes of food is a good starting point, but its not the right amount of food for every tortoise in every situation. They might need some more. What you are feeding is all good stuff.

3. I think separating them is a very good idea. I would never attempt to keep a pair of russians together unless I knew they were both females. Even then I'd feel more comfortable with a trio or more. Two males or a male and female will almost never work out. Russians are just too territorial and aggressive. I think groups of multiple females and ONE male do great in large enough enclosure with lots of hiding spaces. In any case, if you separate them you can eliminate bullying stress as a potential cause or contributor to your eye problem. BTW, I'd move the healthy one, not the sick one.

4. I'd warm water soak the sickie every day to make sure he stay hydrated. It wouldn't hurt to do baby food soaks either. I like carrot and yam baby food the best for this purpose.

5. The terramyacin is a great idea too, but Yvonne is right, you need to figure out what is CAUSING the problem.

6. Your substrate is fine. No need to change it.

7. Do you have a suitable water dish? Terra cotta plant saucers are perfect for this. Cheap. Shallow. Good traction.

8. A humid hide box might really help too, but it will be a little cramped in that enclosure. Here's what I mean: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Humid-Hide-Boxes-II#axzz1D6NEZGr2

9. A suitable second enclosure can be had for around $15 at any hardware store. Just get one of those 40 gallon totes. I found plastic shoe boxes for 99 cents at Home Depot for humid hide boxes.

Good luck and keep us posted.