few questions

[jnite]

I have had my pair of hingebacks for two weeks now. As far as I can tell they are doing ok, but I just had a couple questions about behavior and humidity.
1) My male sits in the water all the time unless I pull him out, is this an indication of something wrong or is it just him? I will say that he is really shy, more than the female by a long shot. The female will sit in the water for a bit then move around or go into the hide. But the female will only go into the water halfway up her shell, he will go deeper. I use a paint tray for the water.

2) What should the humidity be? I've read some things that said 50% and others that have said 80%. I am sitting at 40% right now and know I have to get it higher, just how high?

3) They don't seem to eat a whole lot, I have been told and read that they are naturally not big eaters like redfoots etc. Is this right? They do really like fruit though, but I have only given them fruit every 4 days is this ok? And about bugs.....I have tried a superworm, no dice......and a cricket, no dice also. Do they absolutely need live bugs? I was already thinking that they may take live after awhile when they settle in more. But if they do start to take live, how often do I give it to them, and how much at a time? For greens my most available options are romaine and kale...this is what I use for my dragons and skinks. I can also get green leaf lettuce but from what I read romaine is better. I can get cilantro and parsley and that is pretty much it for greens, any other suggestions?

I think that is all for now. Sorry for the novel!!!

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They are Home's hingebacks

 

[Jacqui]

First off...welcome not only to the forum, but the great world of hingebacks. Do you have or have you had other tortoises? I am guessing these are Homes hingebacks?

Sitting in the water can be a sign of a sick tortoise, but it may not. Can you answer a few questions for me in greater detail?

Is the male eating too or just the female? Is he active once you take him out of the water? Let's also clear this up, in the night you take him out of the water, but then by morning he is back in? Does he go directly back into the water? How warm are you keeping them? Lights? If so where are the heat and/or lights directed? For example over the hide, by the water, opposite side from the water, ect., Just trying to get a good visual on what your enclosure is set up like. How big is it? Hide(s), plants?

You have them for two weeks right? What do you mean by you have given them fruit "every four days"? Does that mean you gave fruit like Mon, Tues, Wed, Thurs and then skipped Friday? Or what?

As a rule, these guys are not big hunters of bugs. Mine eat worms and also butterworms, but other then that no major interest in bugs. No, you do not HAVE to feed them bugs. I give mine a couple of worms several times a week to the ones who love them. It's my way of spoiling them to be honest. My favorites, whom are horrible beggars can usually get me to give them some every day. *blushes*

A high number of hingebacks are not big eaters of their greens. I personally offer it, but don't get stressed if they fail to eat it. I like romaine simply because to me, it seems to be the most likely one to be eaten among my own group. It's not the greatest in food value, but is good for hydration. Try the green leaf and even the kale, see what happens. I am not big on feeding kale often, but that's my opinion of it.

Do you have the ability to get chemical free weeds from a yard that is also not getting used by any animal on Ivermectin type meds for like heartworm prevention? If so, try weeds like dandelions (blooms and leaves), clover (blooms and leaves), plantain,and even bindweed. Or how about grape leaves? An hibiscus plant, rose of sharon (althea) bush,and cactus?

Mine are mainly more into their mushrooms, melons, sweet taters, mangos, papaya, and assorted other fruits. Usually anything red, orange or even yellow is favored. You can try cooked chicken, even fish and snails.

BTW novels are just fine.

 

[jnite]

The male is eating, but as soon as he is done eating he goes right back to the water. The cage I have them in right now is 4x2 feet. On the left is where I feed them and the heat light. I am using a ceramic heat emitter, the hot spot is roughly 90 and the low end is 70. The right side is where I have their water and hide. No plants or anything else yet, just a cuttlebone which they haven't touched yet.

When I said every 4 days I meant I just fed them fruit last night then I won't feed them any more until Monday...somebody told me that fruit is just candy for them and not to feed it very much. They have been eating the romaine and the kale, they just prefer the fruit when I feed it.

Unfortunately I am in Alberta Canada, therefore the growing season is short and don't have much access to weeds etc. Well in the spring dandelions are all over but not this late in the year. I do have a hibiscus but we just pruned it so it isn't ready to be "harvested" yet.

 

[Jacqui]

Just an experiment, what happens if you either turn off the heat emitter or if it gets moved to the other side? Does the male still stay in the water?

Don't worry about not eating the cuttlebone, it may never get even nibbled on. It's just more there so if they want it (calcium) they can get some extra then what is in or on their food.

I am amazed that yours will so willingly eat the greens. The majority seem to only eat it, if mixed with the fruit. I am not sure there is too much fruit for them, it's more it's best if they eat the greens too and get a more complete mix of vitamin/mineral/calories/ect. If yours will eat greens for four days with no problems, then I would stick with that.

I understand about the appearance of winter weather. Sometimes I get lucky and find weeds some how surviving outside all winter long, even under a layer of snow. Just keep variety in mind and when you can, switch them to some new type of greens for a few meals.

 

[jnite]

I will try putting the heat emitter over the water.......

So is more fruit ok, maybe every other day? or just keep it like I'm doing it? I may be able to get cactus pad, I may try that too.

Another question, what do you make your hides out of? I'm using a tupperware with a hole cut in it, is there anything else that may work better?

What about the humidity, what level do you think it should be?????


Thanks so much for answering all my questions I really do appreciate it.

 

[Jacqui]

Heat emitter's over water can be dangerous (saying this not just for you, but anybody reading this post too). In this case your male is an adult who has no issue with getting in and out of the water. Plus has not fallen onto his back correct? Even tho, I am betting he would also be able to right himself.

Normally I would not suggest putting the heat over the water like this. In this case I want to know if any of the water dish sitting is his way of getting away from the heat. So we are moving the heat to the water side. Just for a day, two at the most. Keeping him under observation to see if his behavior changes any at all (plus being sure he doesn't fall onto his back under the heat).

Another thing is be sure the heat lamp can't fall down into the water, that it is securely attached.

You can give more fruit, if you want to. Really there is no hard and fast rules with tortoises of any kind. What I may feed in any one week changes as food becomes available to me, what looks better as I am shopping, what's on sale that week, ect.., Just as in the wild, what the can choose from to eat with seasons and where they happen to roam that day and come upon.

I personally if they were mine, would just make sure I didn't start feeding them a lot of fruit and get them off of being greens eaters. Just go for a balance and work with what you have available as it becomes available.

Most of my hides are the half log hides simply for two reasons, my adults like to climb and they look more appealing to me. Especially with the larger ones that can't fit as readily into the largest half logs I can find, I use half plant pots, hardware bins (not sure what to call them), outside it's often buildt out of rocks. Just whatever I come upon that will work. The tupperware works just fine and is easy to clean. I find that some of mine if the hide is lightweight, they will move them around. I have one group which often place their hide over their water dish.

To be honest, I have avoided the humidity question, because I have just not measured it myself. I keep them on the damp substrate, have some with leaf matter, and some with long strands of moss (I tend to do different things experimenting to see what works better for them) and do lots of fairly heavy mistings, but can't say absolutely I keep it at such and such a level. Also I try to keep the house humidity up with various means.

We are here to try and answer questions. It's in all of our best interests and that of our tortoises to share what little we may know or have experienced. Even the simplest of questions may help somebody else or even trigger memories for people with more experience or refresh things we may have forgotten.

 

[jnite]

I'm starting to think that it is just my male and his personality. He seems quite content in the water and when I bring him out he tucks himself in really tight and won't come out of his shell at all until I leave for quite awhile. But when he is in the water he is out all the time. He just seems really shy, but I will keep a close eye on him for sure. I did put another water dish in the cage and the female really seems to like it or something because she has been hanging out by it all day now. I got to thinking that with him being in the water all the time I wanted to have some water in there that was fresh all the time.

When do the hingebacks reach sexual maturity? I'm not exactly sure how old they are but they are as far as I can tell full size.

 

[Kristina]

A hotspot of 90* is a bit much. I would raise the emitter until you get a hot spot of 80-83*. I have found my Home's to be the most active when the temps range from 68-72*. They really do not care for high heat, and in fact, I myself don't use a hotspot anymore because I have found they are happier without it, and the room that they occupy indoors has a steady temp of 72-75*.

I think the temp might have something to do with it - but, Home's do love the water. I have one big female that likes to sit in the dish.

 

[Jacqui]

Looks like Kristina is thinking like me, that the heat may be a bit too high. On the other hand, there is a little worry because often a sick tortoise will sit in his water dish too.

I too usually have no heat source on for mine, because in the cold months I turn up the room heat for them and in the summer, we have no a/c so it stays hot then too.

Homes tortoises as a rule always love time in the water dish, so the female is being completely normal.

 

[jnite]

OK..... my room is about 75 degrees where they are, anything I read said they should be at least 80-85 so that is why I put the heat emitter in there. I thought they were too cold..... Well that changes things... I may put the 60 watt emitter back in as they are up against a north cement wall, therefore they should be maybe 80 in the hot spot as I did see the female basking under the 100 watt yesterday.

The male won't come out of the water to eat, but when I set him by the food he eats. Maybe I'm worrying for nothing and he is still settling in, because I know with others species some take longer than others so torts shouldn't be any different. He does eat, they ate all the fruit and the kale and lettuce.

Have you bred your hingies? When do they typically mate? And how long is gestation? Thanks again

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OK..... my room is about 75 degrees where they are, anything I read said they should be at least 80-85 so that is why I put the heat emitter in there. I thought they were too cold..... Well that changes things... I may put the 60 watt emitter back in as they are up against a north cement wall, therefore they should be maybe 80 in the hot spot as I did see the female basking under the 100 watt yesterday.

The male won't come out of the water to eat, but when I set him by the food he eats. Maybe I'm worrying for nothing and he is still settling in, because I know with others species some take longer than others so torts shouldn't be any different. He does eat, they ate all the fruit and the kale and lettuce.

Have you bred your hingies? When do they typically mate? And how long is gestation? Thanks again

Another question is regards to foods, I just read kyryah's web page on foods. As far as I can tell cabbage seems to be good, am I reading right? Because I have cabbage readily available. And do the hingebacks eat hay? Timothy would be what I have available. Mine do eat the kale but they prefer the lettuce.

 

[Kristina]

Cabbage is okay occasionally, but I would not feed it as a staple. Hingebacks will most likely not eat hay, but mine have eaten some fresh clover and wheat grass in the past, if it is sprinkled over their other foods.

Hingebacks do best with the food items that Jacqui mentioned above. They love shredded summer squash and sweet potatos, and portabella mushrooms are a favorite and make a great staple. Any mushrooms purchased at the store will do. Mine also readily eat spring mix.

My website is mostly aimed towards grazing tortoises, such as Sulcatas, Leopards, Russians, Greeks, etc. It isn't a bible - more a place to start and get some information on what food items are healthy and what items should be avoided. I feed my Hingebacks a diet of about 40% mushrooms, 40% greens, 10% insects/worms/fish, and 10% fruit.

(Now that I am a "muddy tort" mom, I really need to do some updating to my site!)

My Hingebacks typically mate during the spring and summer, during feeding time. Every day before I feed them I mist the enclosure, outside I use a sprinkler. It simulates conditions that they would eat in, in the wild (right after a rain shower, when it is cooler) and since commercially available Home's are wild caughts, this is a good thing. Homer (my "Alpha" male) gulps his food down and then breeds the females while they eat.

I got eggs last year, they were laid in September. Unfortunately by the time I found them it had been cold out for some time so I did not attempt incubation. From what I have read, incubation times are around 120 days. I believe Jacqui has some eggs in the incubator and may be able to shed a little more light on the subject.