greek id

[rmusial]

I have had the female since 1992 and the male 2006. They both hibernate. Any help with the subspecies would be appreciatated.

 

[egyptiandan]

They are both Testudo graeca ibera

Danny

 

[rmusial]

Thanks Danny. Does anyone know of a book out there that shows all the Greek subspecies?

 

[speedy]

I have had the female since 1992 and the male 2006. They both hibernate. Any help with the subspecies would be appreciatated.

My male is a dead ringer of your lighter colored tortoise. But get this. Dennis from Chelonia.org claims it to be from the middle east, very likely a Terristris sub-species. A. Hayfield. of the toroise trust says it's a north African Graeca, Graeca. I tend to trust Dennis, as he is more responsive and explains, whereas Hayfield gives no explanation and no longer responds since I questioned his guess. I've been told to ask Egyptiandan on this forum. You could try the same. I would like to see how he identifies your lighter colored tort. see my male below. sorry do not know how to attach a photo this this.
Stan

 

[Crazy1]

Hi Stan Welcome to the forum. You can post an attachment (you will find this at the bottom of your "new reply") or you can set up an account on photobucket or tiny pic and copy the img to your post.

 

[egyptiandan]

Hi Stan,
I did answer his post They are both T.g.ibera.
You can always put a link to your pictures if you've already posted them on another forum or use this guide to post pictures here http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-5245.html
Look forward to seeing the pictures and helping you out.

Danny

 

[speedy]

Hi Stan,
I did answer his post They are both T.g.ibera.
You can always put a link to your pictures if you've already posted them on another forum or use this guide to post pictures here http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-5245.html
Look forward to seeing the pictures and helping you out.

Danny

the 3 attached are of my female
thanks Stanley

 

[egyptiandan]

Hi Stanley,
Your female is a Testudo graeca ibera

Danny

 

[speedy]

Hi Stanley,
Your female is a Testudo graeca ibera

Danny

Hi Dan, please bear with me.
What can you tell me about her dark color? Near all ibera that I have seen are of a tan/some say,gold color, as my male who is your classic T,g,i. But speedy is much darker. True color tending to be of a Dark greenish hugh. Scutes of the carapace have much more frontal black margins, nearly no central dot, like in tunisian's. leg scale/scutes are larger than the males. The carapace is also different in shape. The flared marginals on this female protrude greater than the males. His are more tucked under creating a rounder shell. Ditto for the super-caudal. She seams to have a elongated shell, like a moroccan, . Her scutes protrude(slightly pyramidal) where his do not protrude, creating a bumpier shell than the males as well as all other ibera's in books have a smoother more evenly rounded shell. Her head colors also simulate a tunisian, with a somewhat ring of tanish/lighter coloring, almost creating a dark center spot between the eyes. I am no authority on tortoises but notice these detailed differences, and am confused why two experts have named them different. Andy Hayfield says North African T.g.g. Dennis from Chelonia.org says turkish T. ibera who also matches Richard Mayers photo of T.g in the wikipedia site under "Greek tortoise" I contacted Richard and he says his is from turkey ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spur-thighed_Tortoise ). Am I that wrong, and all my assumptions mixed up?
Thank you again for your thoughts and expertise.
Stanley

 

[Meg90]

I'd go with what Danny is telling you, I have yet to see him be wrong.

Also, her scutes are pyramided NOT from her species, or sex, but from improper husbandry (though the pyramiding is only slight).

The torts in books with smooth shells were all most likely wild caught and allowed to exist in their natural habitat until their shell growth stopped, thus escaping the effects usually suffered by long term captive, and captive bred tortoises.

 

[GBtortoises]

I agree with Danny, I have several T. ibera and your female is definitely is one. Her shell does show a minor amount of accelerated growth but it is not pyramided by any stretch of the imagination. There are far worse out there! The growth that it does show is fairly common in captive born and raised tortoises. A correct diet, correct environment and keeping the tortoise well hydrated will keep it at a minimum. She really isn't bad looking at all.

 

[egyptiandan]

T.g.ibera are very variable color wise. They range from all black to mostly yellow and into the olive or greenish hues. The head colors also are variable. The ones from mainland Europe have black heads and the ones from Turkey and Russia tend to have some yellow on the head.
Your's is most likely of Turkish origin.

Danny

 

[speedy]

Thank you much Danny, also Meg and GB for your input. I thought I was doing well in the care of my torts. but now you have me question the slightly pyramidal/raised scutes as a sign of growth spurts. I though it was a sub-species trait. ( I never saw a smooth shelled salcuta.) I live in a suburb of Chicago. They eat mostly dandelions, and cactus with cuttle bone and water always available. From there it is greatly varied and changes from spring to fall. Speedy will always eat. Charlie is more interested in escaping. He is smooth shelled. Both eat very little from Oct to March -approximately. Any suggestions on how to reduce raised scute growth? Is this a problem? etc.

--would like to find a male similar to my female, any leads on that?

 

[Meg90]

The pyramiding is caused by diet, supplementation, and humidity.

All the sulcata you see now are CB, and they all have pyramiding because not much has been known about the cause for a while now. I find that its most related to humidity myself. If your diet is sound, and your torts have access to Ca and UVB, the humidity is kinda the deciding factor in whether or not your tortoise becomes pyramided.

I have one hatchling that is now a year old that has minor pyramiding because of dry substrate, and another approaching four months that has no pyramiding because a portion of the enclosure is kept moist.