Grocery store diet for russian tortoise

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Hey! I got a russian tortoise two months ago, and as far as I know he has never been brumated. Because of our climate he has had to rely on a grocery store diet from late October to May. I got him in February and through my research noticed that none of the foods at the grocery store are that good for tortoises to be eating for most of the year. Also it is hard to grow food high in nutritional value in the darkest months (October to March).

What would you suggest to make his grocery store diet better? What plants should I try to grow for him? I take any suggestions to better his diet. I have tried to add some fiber with soaked hay pellets every time I feed him and added some calcium few times a week. I have also fed him some foods that some people recommend not giving at all, but they have been in low quantity. Overall I have striven for versatility, since none of these foods are that great. This is the selection I have been feeding to him:

• Plants low in nutritional value: (cucumber, zucchini, eggplant, squash, pumpkin)
• Different types of lettuces, also low in nutritional value: (iceberg lettuce, endive and romaine lettuce)
• Fruits and vegetables with high sugar content: (bell pepper, fennel, carrot, apple and banana and turnip)
• Types of cabbage: (Broccoli, cauli flower, asparagus, tenderstem broccoli, rucola, cabbage, napa cabbage, brussels sprout, leaf cabbage, red cabbage and bok choi)
• Fresh herbs: (Basilica, coriander, dill, mint, thyme, salvia, lemon balm, rosemary, oregano, tarragon, lovage and lemongrass)
• Occasionally some other vegetables like spinach, celery, sorrel, globe artichoke and radish. Depending on the grocery store selection.
  
  
  

 

[_The_Beast_]

Welcome to the forum

I'm stuck with grocery greens through the winter and got one of those countertop gardens to start growing healthier stuff throughout that season. It's going great so far! Some of the foods you've mentioned are safe for russians and some of them are not (spinach, for example, is really not ok because it can prevent calcium absorption, so that should not be fed). Russians are not a fruit eating tortoise species and cannot digest them properly, so removing the fruit is an easy starting place. Endive, arugula, escarole, kale, dandelion, and other dark leafy nutrient rich greens are a good grocery store starting place, though finding access to safe weeds is best long term.

Weeds:
There are soooooooo many...
Dandelion
Mallow
Filaree
Smooth Sow thistle
Prickly Sow thistle
Milk thistle
Goat head weed
Cats ear
Nettles
Trefoil
Wild onion
Wild mustard
Wild Garlic
Clovers
Broadleaf plantain
Narrow leaf plantain
Chick weed
Hawksbit
Hensbit
Hawksbeard

Here's a link to a post that has lots of incredible info on how to care for a russian tortoise: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/the-best-way-to-raise-any-temperate-species-of-tortoise.183131/

You can also use The Tortoise Table plant databse to help check plants: https://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/

 

[Tom]

Hey! I got a russian tortoise two months ago, and as far as I know he has never been brumated. Because of our climate he has had to rely on a grocery store diet from late October to May. I got him in February and through my research noticed that none of the foods at the grocery store are that good for tortoises to be eating for most of the year. Also it is hard to grow food high in nutritional value in the darkest months (October to March).

What would you suggest to make his grocery store diet better? What plants should I try to grow for him? I take any suggestions to better his diet. I have tried to add some fiber with soaked hay pellets every time I feed him and added some calcium few times a week. I have also fed him some foods that some people recommend not giving at all, but they have been in low quantity. Overall I have striven for versatility, since none of these foods are that great. This is the selection I have been feeding to him:

• Plants low in nutritional value: (cucumber, zucchini, eggplant, squash, pumpkin)
• Different types of lettuces, also low in nutritional value: (iceberg lettuce, endive and romaine lettuce)
• Fruits and vegetables with high sugar content: (bell pepper, fennel, carrot, apple and banana and turnip)
• Types of cabbage: (Broccoli, cauli flower, asparagus, tenderstem broccoli, rucola, cabbage, napa cabbage, brussels sprout, leaf cabbage, red cabbage and bok choi)
• Fresh herbs: (Basilica, coriander, dill, mint, thyme, salvia, lemon balm, rosemary, oregano, tarragon, lovage and lemongrass)
• Occasionally some other vegetables like spinach, celery, sorrel, globe artichoke and radish. Depending on the grocery store selection.
  
  

Hello and welcome!

I think you are doing great, minus the fruit.

What is wrong with grocery store greens?
1. Low calcium and sometimes low calcium to phosphorous ratio.
2. Low fiber for some.
3. Lack of nutrition. (I'm looking at YOU lettuce...)
4. Some have deleterious compounds like goiterogens.

You are already doing all the right stuff to correct these problems. You added fiber with the soaked hay pellets. You are adding calcium. You've got lots of variety, and you are limiting the goiterogens. You get an "A"! Add weeds and leaves when they are available. Look for Mazuri, Pre Alpin, or Komodo pellets to add as further supplements. Can you get those in Finland?

Here is the standard starter info for people new to the forum:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Thanks! I have read your info for new members and the russian tortoise care sheet. I have seen some say that the tortoise table is overly cautious with some of it's plant listings. Is that true? Are there specific plants I should look for?

Unfortunately any of those pellets aren't available for me. These are the diffrent pellets I have seen sold in pet stores for herbivorous tortoises here in Finland: JBL Herbil, Oxbow Critical care Herbivore, Sera Reptil professional herbivour, Sera Raffy Vital, Sera Raffy Vital Nature, ZooMed Natural grassland, Tropical Biorept and Agrobs Testudo Fibre. I am on the fence about buying any of these, since I am not sure about the quality and with most of them I have not been able to find a detailed list of their contents. The Oxbow is a new brand to me. Aquatic turtles are way more common here in Finland and pellets for them are sold even in some grocery stores.

Have you heard of any of these brands/pellets? Do you think some of them are worth buying?

 

[Tom]

Thanks! I have read your info for new members and the russian tortoise care sheet. I have seen some say that the tortoise table is overly cautious with some of it's plant listings. Is that true? Are there specific plants I should look for?

Unfortunately any of those pellets aren't available for me. These are the diffrent pellets I have seen sold in pet stores for herbivorous tortoises here in Finland: JBL Herbil, Oxbow Critical care Herbivore, Sera Reptil professional herbivour, Sera Raffy Vital, Sera Raffy Vital Nature, ZooMed Natural grassland, Tropical Biorept and Agrobs Testudo Fibre. I am on the fence about buying any of these, since I am not sure about the quality and with most of them I have not been able to find a detailed list of their contents. The Oxbow is a new brand to me. Aquatic turtles are way more common here in Finland and pellets for them are sold even in some grocery stores.

Have you heard of any of these brands/pellets? Do you think some of them are worth buying?

Oxbow critical care is a good product, but its too messy for supplemental use. I use that for tube feeding sick reptiles. The ZooMed pellets are great, but like any good food, it requires a lengthy introduction process. With the variety that your tortoise is already eating, it will probably take to the ZooMed pellets quicker than most. I'm not familiar with the others, but I'll bet they are good for variety. Can you get Mazuri? That's a good supplemental food too.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Thanks! I have read your info for new members and the russian tortoise care sheet. I have seen some say that the tortoise table is overly cautious with some of it's plant listings. Is that true? Are there specific plants I should look for?

Unfortunately any of those pellets aren't available for me. These are the diffrent pellets I have seen sold in pet stores for herbivorous tortoises here in Finland: JBL Herbil, Oxbow Critical care Herbivore, Sera Reptil professional herbivour, Sera Raffy Vital, Sera Raffy Vital Nature, ZooMed Natural grassland, Tropical Biorept and Agrobs Testudo Fibre. I am on the fence about buying any of these, since I am not sure about the quality and with most of them I have not been able to find a detailed list of their contents. The Oxbow is a new brand to me. Aquatic turtles are way more common here in Finland and pellets for them are sold even in some grocery stores.

Have you heard of any of these brands/pellets? Do you think some of them are worth buying?

Agrobs is a manufacturer of Pre Alpin (like Purina and Mazuri/Nutrazu), so I would give it a try at the first place.

The Tortoise Table is "on the safe side", yes. Some plants are marked unsafe due to oxalates and oxalic acid, for example. Which is less a concern for tortoises (they don't form stones because of oxalates and some plants have great Calcium/Phosphorus ratio that overweights oxalates content). That doesn't make a spinach a good food, but at least, you don't have to pick out of Spring Mix bags.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

I can't get the Mazuri, but I will try the Agrobs food. I got my tortoise to eat the hay pellets on my first try by just soaking them and feeding on top of his greens. Maybe I got lucky, maybe he was fed some pellet food by his previous owners and was already used to it. I hope the same happens with the Agrobs!

 

[RosemaryDW]

This poster is in Finland guys so his options don't match what we have in North America or the U.K. Not the weeds list, not the Tortoise Table.

OP we can work this out. First, squash, zucchini and squash are excellent foods, just not for feeding every day. Endive is fine. Romaine isn't ideal but mixed in with plenty of other of stuff is okay. Can you ever get the tops of either radish or turnips? They are great foods. (They also practically grow themselves if you ever have a spot to try them in.) Rucola is what we call arugula and also fine to feed. Watercress is also fine. Is corn salad/mache/lambs lettuce sold in stores there? Another one to try.

If there any other leafy greens there let us know; they might be better than you think.

Your Russian should never have apples or bananas, full stop. His system isn't built to digest them. The occasional bite of carrot or bell pepper is fine. A mushroom or two, a couple of snap peas or green beans, a few okra (if that's a thing there) all are good supplemental foods. A thin slice of sweet potato or yam is also fine if you have them. I give my Russian one of these once a week or so; they have their own benefits.

Wow, your Russian is a great eater, and I mean a great one, If he's eating of those tough leaved herbs he's getting a nice jolt of fiber.

Pre Alpin is a good supplemental pellet so I'd consider the Agrobs product. Mazuri is called Nutra Zu in many markets so you might take a look for it under that name. And plenty of people feed Zoo Med.

Is your male Russian grown? If so he only needs a small pinch of calcium a week, a sprinkling of fairy dust basically. There is plenty of it in all those brassicas you are feeding.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

This poster is in Finland guys so his options don't match what we have in North America or the U.K. Not the weeds list, not the Tortoise Table.

OP we can work this out. First, squash, zucchini and squash are excellent foods, just not for feeding every day. Endive is fine. Romaine isn't ideal but mixed in with plenty of other of stuff is okay. Can you ever get the tops of either radish or turnips? They are great foods. (They also practically grow themselves if you ever have a spot to try them in.) Rucola is what we call arugula and also fine to feed. Watercress is also fine. Is corn salad/mache/lambs lettuce sold in stores there? Another one to try.

If there any other leafy greens there let us know; they might be better than you think.

Your Russian should never have apples or bananas, full stop. His system isn't built to digest them. The occasional bite of carrot or bell pepper is fine. A mushroom or two, a couple of snap peas or green beans, a few okra (if that's a thing there) all are good supplemental foods. A thin slice of sweet potato or yam is also fine if you have them. I give my Russian one of these once a week or so; they have their own benefits.

Wow, your Russian is a great eater, and I mean a great one, If he's eating of those tough leaved herbs he's getting a nice jolt of fiber.

Pre Alpin is a good supplemental pellet so I'd consider the Agrobs product. Mazuri is called Nutra Zu in many markets so you might take a look for it under that name. And plenty of people feed Zoo Med.

Is your male Russian grown? If so he only needs a small pinch of calcium a week, a sprinkling of fairy dust basically. There is plenty of it in all those brassicas you are feeding.

I have not fed him any apple or banana while he has been with me for the last two months and I won't feed them after doing my research. I just listed them as he was fed them at his previous home and I tried to list everything he has been eating during the winters.

I have gone through the tortoise tables list of toxic/harmful plants and we have some of them here in Finland. Of course this took some time translating plant names but I had the time considering getting a pet tortoise. We don't really have endive, escarole, okra or dandelion greens at out grocery stores but a wide variety of brassicas are a stable

Maybe I will lessen the amount of calcium I am giving him? All I know about his age that he is sexually mature, so at least over 15 years old. I don't have a vet near me with the expertise to age tortoises, and I believe it is difficult.

 

[RosemaryDW]

He's an adult then and doesn't need much. He's not doing a ton of growing or producing eggs like a female might be. Supplements can be overdone, especially when someone is a new owner.

Russians eat a fair amount of brassicas in the wild but it shouldn't be the largest component of the diet. You will need to find chicories of some sort eventually. If that is only in spring/summer that would be fine. In the wild Russians spend a good amount of the year eating mainly a dandelion relative and a local buttercup (Tortoise Table is trash on buttercups; they are a huge part of the native diet). As the year progresses they move on a heavier percentage of brassicas. But on balance it's chicory and buttercups (ranunculus).

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

He's an adult then and doesn't need much. He's not doing a ton of growing or producing eggs like a female might be. Supplements can be overdone, especially when someone is a new owner.

Russians eat a fair amount of brassicas in the wild but it shouldn't be the largest component of the diet. You will need to find chicories of some sort eventually. If that is only in spring/summer that would be fine. In the wild Russians spend a good amount of the year eating mainly a dandelion relative and a local buttercup (Tortoise Table is trash on buttercups; they are a huge part of the native diet). As the year progresses they move on a heavier percentage of brassicas. But on balance it's chicory and buttercups (ranunculus).

Yeah, once it is spring and summer I can collect dandelion greens etc. from our garden (we don't use any pesticides and there is minimal pollution). He will be eating mainly weeds soon, it is just that it's not quite spring here yet. There is still almost a foot of snow outside, but I'm already planning his outdoor enclosure where he can spend time on warmer days. On colder days in the summer (15 degrees celcius and under) I plan on bringing him wild plants to eat inside.

Now I feel much better about him eating the grocery store diet during the colder months! I'm still researching and hoping that next winter he may spend his first brumation