Hatchling enclosure questions

[AbbyLee22]

We are happily anticipating the arrival of some new Leo's next week and wanted to share our attempt at a closed chamber and see what you think. Also a few questions. (Will post pics tomorrow if I can)

The basic set up is a 60 gallon tub with 6 inches of peat moss and a humid hide with Sphagnum moss inside. My husband was able to cut a hole in the tubs kid and instal plexiglass. I then made two holes for the lights and humidifier. Today was the first day I was able to truly test temps with the correct humidity. Here are my questions.

1. Is there such a thing as TOO MUCH humidity? Since I installed the humidifier the humidity has been at basically 99%. I have moved the gage around (need to get a second still) to include the closest, farthest, humid hide eat and all is 99%. My plan is to let the humidifier run all night and get the substrate and all nice and wet and then maybe leave it off for the day to see how it affects the humidity. I am thinking I will be able to have it off days and on nights?

2. How far away should the CHE be from the basking spot? I know it has a lot to do with temps, but I have heard of shells getting burns too. I got a 150w CHE but I wish I would have stuck with a 100 or maybe even 75. The temps have been upwards of 150f and I moved it up and it got to 130, but I can't really move it more with my set up.

3. I have seen people put the lam directly on the plexiglass or tank maybe but put tin foil around the parameter. Does this help with the heating? I think I want to do something like this but my husband is worried it will melt the plexiglass.

Thanks for any suggestions or anything. Will keep it updated, hopefully I can get all straightened out before Leo babies are here Thursday!

 

[AbbyLee22]

Here are some pics.
This is the basic set up

Here is the humidifier 'plugged in' and the light next to it will be the daytime light.

Here is the CHE. Like I said, WAY too close. I think I am going to open up that hole more and just place it out side the enclosure. I just dunno if I am going to loose too much heat and / or humidity doing that.

Lastly here is a pic with the humid hide in the far corner. Looks pretty plain currently but I have some plants to put in it once the humidity and temps are good. As you can see the humidifier is really soaking the substrate nicely. Only has been on for an hour or so at this point.

 

[Tom]

Your questions:
1. You should not need to run a humidifier in a closed chamber. I decided long ago that I'd rather plug the leak than bail out the boat, if you low what I mean.
2. You need a smaller CHE and you need to run it on a thermostat. It should be over the middle of the enclosure to maintain ambient temps day and night. It is very hard to do these things in a small tub like that. Building a larger chamber would simplify a lot.
3. Your husband is smart. I would not rest them on the plexi either. Smaller wattage bulbs and a large enclosure would solve your problem here.


How many leos are you getting? Where are they coming from?

 

[Levi the Leopard]

I agree that a humidifier is not needed in a closed chamber.
No need to worry about too much humidity but I would worry about excessively soggy substrate. But you shouldn't have that happen once you ditch the humidifier.

I kept the CHE over the center with the thermostat probe in one corner while the basking/day bulb was in the opposite corner.

I never used plexiglass...so I can't help you there..

 

[AbbyLee22]

Here is a pic I found on the closed chamber thread that lead me to believe tin foil would work.

In the thread they did say it was thick plastic, but I was wondering if the same idea would work for plexiglass.

 

[AbbyLee22]

I will try much smaller bulbs and see if that helps the problem. Good to know the humidifier isn't needed. Luckily I didn't buy it, it was one he had around. I know the enclosure is much too small for them to live in very long. The first year hopefully. This is my attempt at getting the smoothest shells possible. Once were through the winter I have outdoor enclosures and a large tort table that they will spend more time in.

I am getting a pair and I have been reading a lot about how that is a no no for long term. I have a juvenile female that hopefully will be able to all be housed together SOMEDAY. But we have the room if not and a willing husband to help me build something. I am getting them from a group member, so I trust that they will be in good health :0)

 

[Tom]

I still would not get a pair Abby. One or both will suffer for it. Get just one, or set up two different enclosures, or get a trio. Any scenario is better than keeping them as a pair.

Leopards are usually pretty peaceful. I'll bet you will be able to house them all together within a year or two.

 

[AbbyLee22]

I am not trying to argue the point, I 100% believe that you know what your talking about. I guess I just see so many in pairs. The forum about your hatchlings from a large clutch were more commonly in pairs. Honestly, I decided to get two so it would not have the bulling issue with my older one and have three later on.
:/ the commitment is already made and three is too many for the enclosure. I guess I will just watch them carefully and start getting a new enclosure set up.

 

[Yvonne G]

It has been my experience (with desert tortoise hatchlings mostly) that babies do better when there is more than one. I've kept them in pairs or more, and the competition for the food really helps them to eat better.

The thing to remember when keeping pairs is you MUST be vigilant. As soon (or if) as you notice that one of them hides more than the other, or one follows the other all the time, etc. then it's time to separate them. Bullying isn't necessarily biting, pushing or ramming. They do it in silent ways too, which causes the more submissive tortoise to stop eating and to hide a lot.

 

[AbbyLee22]

Thanks Yvonne. I think it was you who was the most diligent to repost in that thread. Yours had a huge size difference and I think you thought it was bullying and when you separated them the stress seemed worse. I guess it just proves that you never know.... They are beautiful but the way! I would love to have a South African Leo someday. That she'll design is what it me interested in Leo's to begin with :0)

 

[AbbyLee22]

Well I think I have the temps correct! The basking area lowest was 93, highest was 105f. The humidity stayed at around 75-83% through out the enclosure. The humid hide is averaging about a 85-90% humidity and still working to get the temps up but at about 85-90 currently. Now I will test the 'nighttime' temps without the basking light on. I have an infrared over the humid hide and of course the CHE in the center. How do these numbers sound so far? Nighttime needs to stay above 80f correct?

 

[Levi the Leopard]

Hi Abby,
Those are photos of one of my chambers.

I'll try and better explain my foil...

The top of that tank is a wire screen. To seal it up I bought clear wrapping paper from the dollar store. I rolled it out out over the screen, cut it to size and taped it down along the edges. Yep, tape. Once every bit of the edge was taped, I traced the domes and cut out the plastic circle. Keep in mind, this is extremely thin, clear wrapping paper...
I cut the circle bigger than the dome so NO part of the plastic is touching the hot dome.
I then made a foil circle to line the edge of the cut out so the top would still be sealed for a closed chamber effect.
Make sense?

I've never dealt with plexiglass, just this and a Rubbermaid tote lid. (I also used thick layers of foil to line those dome cut outs...)

 

[AbbyLee22]

Thanks! That does make sense, the only part i have a question about is the done sitting on the foil? How do you get that seal I guess is what I'm asking. I appreciate you explaining it though! So far I have nothing touching the tin foil but it's not sealed as well as I'd like either.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

The weight of the dome is held up by the screen lid...but I DO have the dome sitting ON the foil. The foil ring is 2" wide. It extends 1" under the dome and 1"out (which is why you see the foil). This slight overlap helped keep it "hole free" so my heat and humidity didn't escape.

Foil can handle heat just fine. We use it on BBQs, in the oven..shoo the hot dome isn't a concern. It's the plastic I didn't want against the dome.

I also wrapped the top of my domes (where the vent holes are) in foil to prevent the chimney effect of good air rising up and out.

Honestly, the best way would be to cover the heating elements and lighting though... I had to change bulbs pretty often because the condensation collecting at the socket would short the bulbs.

 

[AbbyLee22]

Okay I see it now. Thanks again. I bought a clear shower curtain also (when I wasn't sure how I was going to do it all) maybe i should cover the lights and make it that more airtight. Good info though. I am excited to see how the nighttime temps do. If good, than I am ready for babies on Thursday!

 

[AbbyLee22]

What do you think about the temps and humidity so far?

 

[Levi the Leopard]

You are correct, nighttime temps above 80F
93-105F is fine but through my trials/set ups, I personally became more comfortable with the high 90s and less comfortable with the 100s.

You should use some of that pvc to make a frame and cover it with that shower curtain. Then you'll have a lid that will cover your habitat, heat sources and all.

 

[AbbyLee22]

Yay! The humid hide got up to a nice 93f with 85% humidity. It didn't really go more than 3 degrees up or down from that. Even with the basking light off the temps in the whole enclosure didn't drop past 88f with 75% humidity, so I think that's pretty good with a warmer hide. Great start :0)