Help, I think my tortoises died of pneumonia

[badkitty]

Heartbroken
We just moved in June from Phoenix AZ
To Oshkosh Wisconsin. I have 4 large Sulcata tortoises from 50lbs to 100lbs.
They transitioned great and have been great.
Once the weather changed we enclosed a section of the garage and added blankets, hay and heat lights plus they had the option to go outside when it was sunny.
Husband just checked on them and 2 of the 50 lb. Sulcatas were dead with blood in nose/mouth.They seemed fine no trouble breathing or any discharge, their eyes were clear.
Can someone please tell me what kind of lights to purchase for their size.
We are heartbroken, we have since moved them to our basement which is warmer than the garage. How many lights should we have for a 70 lb and 100 lb tort, any information that could help is appreciated, I'm calling around but no one see tortoises.
Thanks in advance. Grace

 

[Maro2Bear]

Terrible news, so sorry.

What are/were the temps in your garage? Did you have any type of heating? Mini oil heaters, a heated night box, a few hanging CHE’s strategically placed, a few Kane or Stanfield heat pads?

You need to have a large heated night box so they have a warm, humid spot to crawl into. Have they all been together all the time?

I’m sure some others will ask more questions, but you definitely need to create a nice warm enclosure (or more).

Good luck.

 

[wellington]

A cement floor is too cold and draws dampness. You need more then lights to heat even the basement. An oil filled space heater or two and I would lay a wood floor over the cement floor.
I don't think it was an RI that killed your other ones. Which I am so very sorry about. I just don't think there would be blood. I may be wrong though. I would guess more of a bad fight between the two. Four sulcatas in a garage is way too crowded, specially for sullies coming from not being cooped up for winter. Unless it's a very big garage with lots of room and sight barriers and lots of different heating, eating, basking and hide spots I can imagine plenty of pent up aggression.
You need to separate the two you have left.

 

[wellington]

@Tom @Yvonne G @Markw84 what you think? RI or possible aggression/fight?

 

[Tom]

When they fight the dead one is usually split open from the side. The aggressor will pin them up against a wall or rock or tree and ram their gulars into the side of the losing tortoise until they open them up and smash them.

Blood around the mouth suggest something else. Possibly cold and possibly poison. Possibly fumes in the garage? Possibly a toxic plant they ate that doesn't occur in AZ?

 

[badkitty]

They have never fought ,ever.
I put cardboard down then thick moving blankets on top of it cover with some hay.
All I can think of is we had a freeze and then the temps came back up in the 70s. I should have realized they needed more heat sources besides the lamps.

 

[Tom]

They have never fought ,ever.

It only takes once...

 

[Tom]

They have never fought ,ever.
I put cardboard down then thick moving blankets on top of it cover with some hay.
All I can think of is we had a freeze and then the temps came back up in the 70s. I should have realized they needed more heat sources besides the lamps.

What do you think the temperature was on the floor of the garage during the freeze?

Heat lamps are not an effective way to heat large tortoises.

Cold temps don't usually kill them instantaneously, unless it was well below freezing. Cold temps make them sick and they can die days or weeks later if things are corrected and treated.

Is there a car parked in the garage? Gas cans? Solvents? Bug spray? Paint cans? Water sealer? Etc...

 

[TammyJ]

I agree with what Tom has said about possible poison fumes, and I would think that the owner would have some idea of what the temperatures were in the garage? This is so very sad. I am very sorry.

 

[badkitty]

I don't know what they overall temps were in the garage, or what it got down to in the open part but it went down to 28 outside when it froze over, it was cold for a couple nights then climbed back into the 60's. They were all in the garage at night in the area sectioned off for them. They had a hide box that was built for them to go in to keep warm the temps when it was put together with the heat lamps were around 80+ depending on where in the hide it was measured. The area that was sectioned off was a 16'x16' area and the hide was 6'x6' with heat lamps added to keep it warm and padding.

We do not park our vehicles in the garage so no fumes/poison accessible to them.

This was several weeks ago when we had the freeze and then it warmed up again, I don't know if they were all in the hide when it froze over or not. The torts were still going in and out over the last several weeks because it was in the 60's during the day and they wanted to go out to sit in the sun.

It has been getting cooler over the last week but they were still active going in and out during the day, they were not showing any signs of being sick but I'm thinking they could have got too cold the couple days it froze over.

They have been moved inside since then and in the basement where the hide box has been redone with the addition of 2 oil filled space heaters and the heat lamps as well the temps are 85+ in the heated areas and about 70 on the other side if they need to cool off, we placed wood down on the floors to create a barrier and old carpet on top the wood for more insulation.

 

[Deedledee]

Hello! I am in WI too. Here is a link to the list of vets that see exotics, compiled by the Madison Herp Society. There are 2 in Appleton listed under Outagamie County.

http://madisonherps.org/guwp/wp-con...onsin-Reptile-and-Amphibian-Veterinarians.pdf

I hope you are able to figure out what happened, I am so sorry for your loss!