Help (need care info)

[Tiffany0214]

Can someone please help? Just purchased what we were told was a Spur Thigh Tortoise yesterday 10/12/14. We purchased along with him a "pad" that goes on the bottom of the tank, a 75W reptile heat bulb, which was what was recommended, food and water dishes and calcium powder to put on it's food. We were told a good diet would be Romane Lettuce and Colard Greens. We have had both of those with the calcium powder in it's food dish since yesterday (swapped for fresh this morning) but it has not touched any of it and is sleeping a lot, but also moving around and walking. Just stressed from move to new environment??

 

[Maro2Bear]

If you just brought him home yesterday, im sure he's just getting acclimated to his new home. Needs to figure out whats what. Where the food supply is, best place to dig, hot n cool spots, etc. dont mess too much with him, give him time. In the meantime, take a few pix of ur enclosure and ur tort so the Forum has a better idea of ur overall set up. Good luck n welcome.

 

[Tiffany0214]

Okay, thank you. I will do that when I get home so if there is anything I need to change someone can let me know. I appreciate your response.

 

[Irwin4530]

We will definitely guide you towards the appropriate set up if anything needs to be changed......that and we're just huge suckers for pictures of baby tortoises

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your new family member!

 

[lismar79]

The diet they told you is not good. You will meed more variety. Also the heating pads are not a good idea, heat should come from above. I'm also thinking they sold you a "drown" bowl which is one of those ramp likeplastic ones... they are flip hazards when you take a pic of your enclosure show us what kind of bulb they told you to get, my next guess would be that they gave you a coil bulb which have eye damage cases linked to them...... many of pets stores do give bad care advice. Post a few pic and we will get you all squared away

 

[Tiffany0214]

Thank you!

 

[Tiffany0214]

It's not a heating pad its just a green kind of felt like pad. They told us we could either do that or bark?? What else should be add to it's diet? And the food and water dish are plastic they are kind of rock style looking?? They are very shallow though so it will not drown. What is a coil bulb? The one I was given looks like a regular light bulb but its just a heat buld so it gets hot fast.

 

[Tiffany0214]

heat bulb*

 

[Maro2Bear]

Yes, best water bowl is a plain old pottery plant saucee. Then sink it into ur substrate so it is level with the substrate, nothing too deep. I agree with lismar as well, pet stores are notorious for providing just bad and incorrect information. There are lots of care sheets on this Forum to read and soak in the info.

 

[lismar79]

You should have bark or coir for them to dig into. It also helps hold the humidity and if you got a hatchling, baby, he will need high humidity to grow smooth.
http://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Compressed-Coconut-Substrate/dp/B0010OSIHW/ref=sr_1_1?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1413205848&sr=1-1&keywords=coconut coir
Or
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001F9AMW6/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20
Do not use pine shavings.
Your heat bulb should also be a uv source if you are unable to get him out in the sun (and through a window won't work) they need this to process the calcium.
A picture will tell us a lot. Look through the sections above each kind and read up on care!

 

[Tiffany0214]

Okay I will swap out the "felt pad" for the bark and then I will submerge the dishes into the substrate so they will be easy for him to access without having to some what climb. I will check the bulb as well and when I finish with that I will send pics so if there is anything else I need to change I can do that too.

Thank you for all the advise.

I will be doing all of this today when I get off so you think he will be okay for today while I am at work with the things I told you he has?

 

[lismar79]

Okay I will swap out the "felt pad" for the bark and then I will submerge the dishes into the substrate so they will be easy for him to access without having to some what climb. I will check the bulb as well and when I finish with that I will send pics so if there is anything else I need to change I can do that too.

Thank you for all the advise.

I will be doing all of this today when I get off so you think he will be okay for today while I am at work with the things I told you he has?

One day should not make a big diff, its more damaging over a period of time. As long as your temps are not too hot or cold you should be good today.

 

[Tiffany0214]

Okay, thank you. The heat lamp is only on one side of the tank and is a 75W heat bulb. I hope that is okay and I will keep everyone posted! Thanks again!

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Tiffany, and welcome to the Forum!

Please clear something up for me - a spur thigh tortoise is a Testudo graeca or Greek tortoise. A smaller species from the Mediterranean area. A spurred tortoise is a Sulcata. One of the largest species that comes from Africa. Can we please see pictures of your new tortoise so that we can offer you the correct advice?

 

[Tiffany0214]

I will post a picture when I get home.

 

[Tiffany0214]

This is what we have can you please tell me what he is for sure?

 

[Tiffany0214]

Hi Tiffany, and welcome to the Forum!

Please clear something up for me - a spur thigh tortoise is a Testudo graeca or Greek tortoise. A smaller species from the Mediterranean area. A spurred tortoise is a Sulcata. One of the largest species that comes from Africa. Can we please see pictures of your new tortoise so that we can offer you the correct advice?

I posted pictures to the thread. Thanks!

 

[Tiffany0214]

Okay, here is everything. The dishes are level with the substrate.

 

[Irwin4530]

The first thing I would recommend doing is Reading Tom's threads about proper sulcata care.....I will look for them and attach them here if I can. Main points will include proper bedding, proper food, proper levels of heat and humidity.

I am hopeful that you will be able to return some of the items you recently purchased in order to acquire more appropriate ones. (?)

 

[Irwin4530]

It's been three years since the original care sheet, http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-63788.html , and I think its time for a review and an update. A lot of new info has come to light over the last three years and new insight has been gained through numerous experiences. What follows is my preferred current method of raising sulcatas and leopards. Others have tried this with numerous other species and seen universal success, but the bulk of my experience is with sulcatas and leopards.

Indoor housing:
It must be noted that we now know sulcatas babies hatch during the start of the rainy season in Africa. It is hot, humid, rainy, and marshy in some areas. Yes the area is dry for 8-9 months out of the year, but it is a swamp during hatching season. During the dry season, sulcatas spend the vast majority of their time underground in warm, humid burrows. Keeping your hatchling in a dry, desert-like enclosure, is a big mistake and an invitation to disaster. It is also very un-natural for these animals. Imagine what would happen to an earthworm in a hot, dry enclosure with dry substrate. The same thing happens to the INSIDE of a baby tortoise. Your enclosure should be maintained such that an earthworm could live in it just as well as a hatchling tortoise. A damp substrate, a water bowl, and a humid hide should all be pre-requisites. Along with this, warm temps day and night are necessary. Sulcatas and leopards are NOT prone to shell rot at all, and they do not get respiratory infections in these damp conditions as long as temps are kept up. I shoot for no lower than 80 degrees day or night year round. Adults can tolerate colder temps in some circumstances, but this care sheet is for hatchlings and babies and is aimed at helping them thrive, not just survive.

Heating and Lighting:
I use a 65 watt incandescent flood bulb on a 12 hour timer and adjust the height of the fixture to get a hot spot of around 100 directly under the bulb. Then I use a ceramic heating element set to 80 degrees on a reptile thermostat to maintain my ambient temperature in the enclosure. Sometimes the basking lamp raises the day time ambient into the low 90s. This is fine and the thermostat will keep your CHE off during these times, but ready to click on after the basking lamp clicks off and the ambient temperature starts to drop at night. I use long florescent tubes when I want to brighten up the whole enclosure and I run these on the same timer as the basking bulb. The above are just what works for me and are suggestions for what might work for you. Every enclosure and home is different, and some customization will usually be necessary to get things "just right".

UV:
Tortoises MUST have regular exposure to the right kind of UV rays. Real sunshine is best, but be careful. Shade should always be available as babies can overheat and die surprisingly quickly. If your tortoise can get some regular sunning time in a safe outdoor enclosure, even just a couple of times a week for most of the year, you don't need any artificial UV. Its okay if you have to skip two or three weeks of sunning time during a cold winter spell. If you live somewhere with long frozen winters, then some artificial UV might be in order for that time of year. I prefer mercury vapor bulbs. Long florescent UV tubes seem to work okay too nowadays, but I have yet to test that theory. I recommend against any type of coil or cfl UV bulb. I have personally seen these cause eye issues too many times. More research is needed to find out exactly what the problem with the cfl UV bulbs is, but there is no denying that there is a problem at least some of the time.

The Actual Enclosure:
I have not been able to make any open topped enclosure work to my satisfaction. Low sided open topped enclosures like tortoise tables and sweater boxes are the worst. No amount of covering, or attempts to slow heat and humidity loss have worked well for me. There is just no way to keep the warm humid air where you want it. For about the last year and a half, I have only been using closed chambers for any tropical species of tortoise, and I couldn't be happier with them. Temperate species of tortoises that require drier conditions or a bigger night time temperature drop might fare better in the typical tortoise table set up. I will leave that for someone more experienced with those species to tell you in THEIR care sheet. Maintaining whatever temperature and humidity you want is easy and efficient in a closed chamber. They use a lot less electricity because all of your heat and humidity is trapped with nowhere to go. It also makes maintaining warm night temps a snap. Open tops allow all your warm humid air to escape up and into the room where your enclosure sits. Even if you cover most of the top, the heat lamps create a chimney effect and draw your heat and humidity up and out. Having the heat lamps outside, or on top of, the enclosure also lets the majority of the electricity you are using to produce heat float up up and away... A closed chamber can be made by covering the top of a tub or tank and minimizing ventilation, but its not easy and you burn more electricity. It works best if all the heating and lighting equipment is INSIDE the enclosure with the tortoise. Maintaining a small open topped box at 80 degrees with 80% humidity in a regular sized room that is 70 degrees and 20% humidity is VERY difficult, if not impossible in a practical sense. A closed chamber makes it easy.
Here is an older thread I did on closed chambers:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-32333.html

You need to know, and periodically adjust your temperatures. You need to regularly check warm side, cool side, basking spot and night temps, and adjust as needed. Every enclosure is different and they even change with the seasons in most households. It is not enough to plop a bulb on top and walk away. Check those temps, and make adjustments, preferably BEFORE the baby even comes home. I like to use an infrared temp gun AND remote probed thermometers for this purpose. Check your temps early and often.

Enclosure size:
Simply put: The bigger the better. I start babies in a 4x8' closed chamber. As a minimum, I would suggest no smaller than 48"x18" for a tiny hatchling. They need room to roam around. Once you put in the food and water bowls, the humid hide, and any decorations or potted plants, there is hardly any room left over to walk. Tortoises do not tend to do as well when stuffed into small enclosures. For a sulcata, even 4x8' is only going to last a year or two. You might get three years with it for a leopard or slower growing sulcata.

Humid Hide Boxes:
This offers the tortoise a more humid place to retreat to and sleep and can simulate some of the more damp micro-climates they might utilize in the wild. It is as simple as getting a $2 black dishwashing tub from Walmart, flipping it upside down and cutting out a small door hole. I keep the substrate under the tub more damp than the surrounding substrate and it works great. You can also use plastic shoe boxes. Some people like to put sphagnum moss in their hides or attach a sponge to the top. This is all fine, but I usually don't bother. This is a short paragraph, but this is a very important detail that should not be overlooked.

Substrate: I recommend coco coir, orchid bark, cypress mulch, plain additive free soil, or yard dirt if yours is suitable. All of these can be purchased in bulk at most hardware or garden center stores at a tremendous savings. I recommend against wood shavings or chips, ground walnut shell, corn cob bedding, rabbit pellets, compressed grass pellet bedding, newspaper pellets, hay, cedar, or any amount of sand.

Water bowls: Plain old terra cotta plant saucers work best. They come in a variety of sizes to suit any size tortoise, they offer good traction to little wet tortoise feet, they have low sides and the are shallow so your tortoise won't drown if it happens to flip over and land upside down in the water bowl. Sink the bowl into the substrate for best results. No harm in having two water bowls, by the way. Do NOT use the typical ramped pet store bowls. These can literally be death traps for tortoises. Great for snakes and lizards though. Clean your terra cotta saucer as often as needed. The more they track food and substrate into it, and the more they poop in it, the better. This means they are comfortable using their bowl, and that is great news. Just rinse and refill as many times a day as you need to.

Soaking:
I recommend hatchlings be soaked in 85-95 degree water for 20-30 minutes once a day. I use a tall sided opaque tub and keep the water depth about a third of the way up the body. If you have a humid enclosure with a humid hide and a water bowl, it is totally fine to skip a day here and there. Soaking only once a week and using a dry enclosure is not enough in my opinion, and I would not buy a hatchling that had been started that way. Once the tortoise gets to about 4" I relax a bit on the soaking routine and gradually taper it down as they gain size. How often I soak older tortoises depends on a lot of factors, the current weather and season being two big ones. I soak more often when its hot and dry. If you live in a warm, humid, rainy climate, and your tortoise is exposed to these conditions, soaking less often is probably fine, but it still wont hurt anything to do it.

Feeding:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-76744.html Please click here. Enough said.

Supplements: I recommend you keep cuttle bone available all the time. Some never use it and some munch on it regularly. Some of mine will go months without touching it, and then suddenly eat the whole thing in a day or two. Sulcatas and leopards grow a lot. This requires a tremendous amount of calcium assimilation over time. A great diet is paramount, but it is still a good idea to give them some extra calcium regularly. I use a tiny pinch of RepCal or ZooMed plain old calcium carbonate twice a week. Much discussion has been given to whether or not they need D3 in their calcium supplement. Personally, I don't think it matters. Every tortoise should be getting adequate UV exposure one way or another, so they should be able to make their own D3. I also like to use a mineral supplement. "MinerAll" is my current brand of choice. It seems to help those tortoises that like to swallow pebbles and rocks. It is speculated that some tortoise eat rocks or substrate due to a mineral deficiency or imbalance. Whatever the reason, "MinerAll" seems to stop it or prevent it. Finally, I like to use a reptile vitamin supplement once a week, to round out any hidden deficiencies that may be in my diet over the course of a year.

Outdoor housing:
This is a MUST in my opinion. Tortoises are solar powered, need lots of walking room, and benefit greatly form the great outdoors. With hatchlings I start with short excursions of only an hour or two a day, followed by a soak on the way in. As they gain size, I like to leave them out longer and longer each day, weather permitting, until they eventually live outside full time with a heated night box of some sort. Outside time must be done with great care as there are many dangers. They can overheat, be eaten or mauled, or escape. Here are some ideas. These things have all worked well for me, but the possibilities are endless.
For hatchlings: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-30683.html These work great and are very customizable, but make sure you provide adequate shade. Resting some plywood on top will usually not suffice. Use your temp gun early and often to make sure temps are okay when your baby is outside.
My favorite housing ever for juveniles: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-28662.html
And for adults living outside in areas or seasons when a burrow is not appropriate: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-66867.html

Pyramiding:
This is the subject of many threads in itself. I will simply state here what I know to be true based on my experience, my experiments, conversations with people who live in Africa and study African tortoises, people who have kept them for decades here in the U.S., and personal observations of thousands of tortoises in all manners of keeping styles.

There are many things listed as causes of pyramiding. I can refute each one with multiple examples. Lack of UV, lack of calcium, too much protein, too much food, the wrong foods, fast growth, wrong temperatures, small enclosures, not enough exercise, indoor housing, etc. None of these factors CAUSES pyramiding. They can all be somehow related to it, but they don't cause it. Simply put, pyramiding is caused by growth in conditions that are too dry. This is true for any species of tortoise, even the ones that don't typically pyramid. To prevent pyramiding I use a closed chamber and keep the ambient temperature 80 or higher all the time, I keep humidity around 80%, I offer a humid hide that holds 95-100% humidity, I soak daily to ensure good hydration, and I spray the carapace with plain water several times a day. Sulcatas hatch during the African rainy season. It is hot, humid, rainy and marshy. It makes no sense to keep them in a dry box, with dry substrate, and a hot desiccating bulb overhead. Simulating this rainy season has grown me hundreds of smooth leopard and sulcata babies, as well as a few other species too. There are literally hundreds of examples of other people succeeding using the same basic philosophy here on this forum. So please, don't keep sulcatas and leopards in desert-style enclosures. It is not healthy for them. They are not the least bit prone to shell rot, like some other species are, and they DO NOT get respiratory infections from high humidity as long as temps are 80 or higher everywhere in the enclosure, day and night. I don't say these things and come up with these assertions lightly. Its not that I raised one tortoise this way, and everything went okay. I have raised literally hundreds of them this way and had no problems.


Happy Torting!