Help with Hermanns ID and adoption/rescue care

[Michael Bird]

I have been presented with the opportunity to adopt two Hermann's Tortoises from an unhappy situation, and I need advice confirming their ID as well as advice how to help them be healthier and happier.

From the pictures, it's clear to see that they have some significant pyramiding, and they are being kept in an extremely inappropriate enclosure. I know how to fix the enclosure problem, and have room to do it, but I want to know what, if anything, I can do to help reduce or even eliminate future growth problems. And if they seem to be healthy enough otherwise that it's a realistic goal.

The current owner was hoping to have a breeding pair, but obviously didn't know how to care for the tortoises properly, and I suspect that they actually have two different varieties of Hermann's (one western and one eastern) so breeding them wouldn't be a good idea anyway. But, I am curious to know if the pyramiding is a sign that they are not going to be healthy enough to breed if I am able to get appropriate partners for them at some point in the future.

I've been told that the male is about 6 years old and the female is about 5 years old.
I'll put pictures of their fish tank and the two of them together here, then add separate messages with individual close-up pictures that were sent to me.

Also, what would you guess would be a fair price for me to buy them? Part of the reason for the adoption is the young couple are having financial problems and need to sell the tortoises, so I want to give them a fair price, keeping their possible health issues in mind.

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[Michael Bird]

Male, maybe Western?

 

[Michael Bird]

Female, maybe Eastern?

 

[Michael Bird]

I just realized I put the wrong "top view" in for the female and I can't edit that post now. This is her from the top:

 

[TeamZissou]

These are both Easterns, and look to be a male and a female as well. Westerns have solid, jet black bands on the plastron with sharp definition at the edges, easiest way to tell. The male has the more faded black with lighter edges typically seen in Easterns. Other factors, such as pectoral/humeral scute suture length can be seen at the links below.

The pyramiding isn't terrible, so the only thing I would prioritize is getting the beaks trimmed, or attempting to let it wear down naturally with higher fiber food and higher calcium intake. It's actually surprising they look this good, given that there is no basking lamp visible in the photos, and only a UV coil bulb in a clamp light.

In terms of pricing, Andy at AZ tortoise compound would charge about $500 for a pair of Easterns of similar size (link below. This seems fairly reasonable given their size, but it's possible you could find some slightly cheaper on Fauna Classifieds. Hatchlings would probably be in the $150-200 range each. The plus in your case is that you won't have to ship them. As mentioned, getting larger separate enclosures would another cost. Tyler at Tortoise Supply has some for $450 apiece, which is too much IMO.

Arizona Tortoise Compound

Hermanns Tortoise (Eastern) 6"+ Breeding Size Adults

Adult Hermanns Tortoises For Sale - Testudo Hermanii Available Now at TortoiseSupply.com!

www.tortoisesupply.com

How to Identify Hermann's Tortoises

HOW TO IDENTIFY HERMANN'S TORTOISES This is a newly updated (2018) thread explaining how to tell apart the subspecies or "types" of Hermann's tortoise (Testudo hermanni ssp). Before reading on, it's crucial for you to understand that telling the Hermann's tortoises apart is not always easy. In...

tortoiseforum.org

Eastern Hermann's Tortoise | hermannihavenhome

www.hermannihaven.com

 

[Michael Bird]

Thanks for the info. I'm glad that you don't think the pyramiding looks too terrible. They definitely don't have a good setup for two adult tortoises!

I wondered about the male since he does have fairly solid plastron lines, but you're right that they don't look as well defined as the ones in the identification guide in your link.

I had not heard of Fauna Classifieds before. There are a couple of posts with VERY inexpensive Hermann's babies there. Kinda tempting if I don't end up adopting this adult pair.