Help with RHP and lighting?

[fritzgerald]

Looking for some setup advice here. I have a DIYCages 4x2x2 enclosure that I'm setting up for a Leopard hatchling and I'm looking for some advice on lighting and heat placement.

There's currently only a single ceramic lamp base in the enclosure but I'm planning on installing an 80 watt VE RHP, Arcadia T5 24" UVB, and a basic led strip from Home Depot for ambient lighting. I'm just not sure of the best placement for everything.

I also have another Home Depot porcelain lamp base and 100 watt CHE but I'm worried about the heat being too much for the PVC and planned on returning them.

Here's some photos of templating the RHP orientation.

Another separate question, I was planning to close all the side vents with aquarium silicone, should I close them all up and just keep the small gap in the front glass or should I leave one or two rows open?

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Hey! Hopefully these guys can weigh in for you, they’re WAY better at the technical questions than me lol @Alex and the Redfoot @Markw84 @Tom

I think the panel or ceramic should be ok to use in this set up, this is what I saw on their website

So I guess it’s personal choice

You’ll be fine to seal all the vents yes

 

[Tom]

Looking for some setup advice here. I have a DIYCages 4x2x2 enclosure that I'm setting up for a Leopard hatchling and I'm looking for some advice on lighting and heat placement.

There's currently only a single ceramic lamp base in the enclosure but I'm planning on installing an 80 watt VE RHP, Arcadia T5 24" UVB, and a basic led strip from Home Depot for ambient lighting. I'm just not sure of the best placement for everything.

I also have another Home Depot porcelain lamp base and 100 watt CHE but I'm worried about the heat being too much for the PVC and planned on returning them.

Here's some photos of templating the RHP orientation.

Another separate question, I was planning to close all the side vents with aquarium silicone, should I close them all up and just keep the small gap in the front glass or should I leave one or two rows open?

The RHP will be fine. They don't get very warm on the back side. The "lens" directs the heat downward into the enclosure.

The CHE should be fine in that fixture, and it will also be fine if you use it in a ceramic based dome fixture hanging from the ceiling. I've used them both of those ways in multiple PVC enclosures and they work just fine. The heat is directed down.

I would not use silicone on the vents. Run the enclosure with substrate, heating and lighting and see what your humidity and temperature does. It might be just fine as is, and some venting is okay. If you find that it's drying out too much, or having difficulty staying warm, try putting black tape over some of the vents. I have an arboreal cage like that and I had to put electrical tape over most of the vents to hold in humidity. If needed, try taping over half the vents and then give it a day or two to see what the effect will be. Tape more or less as needed. I don't tape up any of the vents in my AP cages and I can maintain 80% humidity with dry substrate and a water bowl. Run it first to see if you even need to cover any vents.

 

[Markw84]

Agree with @Tom However, I do personally like to use a dome when using a CHE. Like to have the gap between the ceiling and the ceramic of the fixture that does get hot. The dome leaves more flexibility for moving it around if needed in the future. Place the UVB and basking light to one side to leave as much room as possible for the tortoise to get away from the basking (and UVB) zone. Use potted plants to create shade gradients as well.

 

[fritzgerald]

Thanks @Littleredfootbigredheart and @Tom. I bought the CHE and porcelain base already but, then I saw the warning on DIYCages page, which made me nervous. I can just run it for a week and monitor how hot it gets.

As for the vents and humidity, it's sitting in my living room, completely empty with the glass pulled out, and holds a consistent 68 temp and 66% humidity. This is with no lights, substrate, etc. I just figured it's easier to fill the vents now, with nothing in it, than it would be later. Electrical tape is a good idea though, thanks for that Tom. Theres 10 vent slots on each side so I'll just step up taping over a row of two on each side until it holds consistent temps/humidity.

For substrate, do either of you know what "Aged Fir Compost" is or if should be safe? My only local options I can find are ReptiBark, HD/Lowes Orchid media, or a bulk yard with the aged fir compost.

Edit: Thank you too @Markw84, I posted the reply just before I saw your reply. Haha, what you said about it getting hot was my biggest worry. So I'm just gonna go the safer route of ordering the RHP and ditching the CHE.

 

[Markw84]

@fritzgerald

I use the "Micro Bark" sold at garden centers in 2 cu ft bags for substrate - $12 will easily be enough for your enclosure. @Tom also uses the same. It is made by EB Stone. So look for a garden center near you that carries EB Stone products. They will most likely carry the micro bark. Here is a link where I find 4 centers in Bakersfield carrying EB Stone products;

Find a Store Near You | EB Stone Soils & Fertilizers

Locate EB Stone retailers near you and shop our organic soils, fertilizers, and gardening products today.

www.ebstone.org

 

[fritzgerald]

@fritzgerald

I use the "Micro Bark" sold at garden centers in 2 cu ft bags for substrate - $12 will easily be enough for your enclosure. @Tom also uses the same. It is made by EB Stone. So look for a garden center near you that carries EB Stone products. They will most likely carry the micro bark. Here is a link where I find 4 centers in Bakersfield carrying EB Stone products;

Find a Store Near You | EB Stone Soils & Fertilizers

Locate EB Stone retailers near you and shop our organic soils, fertilizers, and gardening products today.

www.ebstone.org

Thank you for this. I'll be right next to two of these centers today so hopefully one of them will have it.

 

[Tom]

Thank you for this. I'll be right next to two of these centers today so hopefully one of them will have it.

 

[fritzgerald]

View attachment 398120

Thank you. Of the 4 locations in town, one used to carry it, one never carried it, one said over the phone they they didn't have it (but she didn't know what it was so I'm headed there now to check), and the 4th is closed until tomorrow.

 

[Tom]

Thank you. Of the 4 locations in town, one used to carry it, one never carried it, one said over the phone they they didn't have it (but she didn't know what it was so I'm headed there now to check), and the 4th is closed until tomorrow.

If they don't have it, ask them to order it for you. They might have to buy a whole pallet, so there might be reluctance...

 

[fritzgerald]

Strike out 3 for 3. Everyone just refers me to Home Depot or Lowes. But at their prices, I'd just pick up ReptiBark.

I may look a little further down the grapevine and decide if it's worth making the drive.

 

[fritzgerald]

Just in case anyone from the Bakersfield area comes across this thread, no local distributors carry GreenAll Micro Bark. Closest is GreenAll Fir Mulch but that has a bunch of added stuff that makes it a no go.

However, I found Green Landscape Nursery in Santa Clarita that does have it.

 

[fritzgerald]

I'm laying out all my heating and lighting now and wanted to get some opinions on good or bad.

Nothing is actually attached yet so I can change the layout if needed.

I think everything should work fine except maybe the UVB placement up against the wall (I can also print some wedges to tilt it more inward if that helps. With our weather starting to warm some during the afternoons and being able to get outside sun I don't think I'll really need it too much but I figured I might as well install it anyway.

I plan to mount everything directly to the top so after 3-4" of substrate, height will be about 18-19".

Equipment going in is:

VE 80 watt radiant heat panel
Arcadia Pro T5 12% 24 UVB
Ceramic base with 65 watt flood
and 36 inch led bar from Amazon

True inside dimensions are 46.5" x 22.5" x 22.5"

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Looks good to me, but we’ll see what the others think

 

[Markw84]

I'm laying out all my heating and lighting now and wanted to get some opinions on good or bad.

Nothing is actually attached yet so I can change the layout if needed.

I think everything should work fine except maybe the UVB placement up against the wall (I can also print some wedges to tilt it more inward if that helps. With our weather starting to warm some during the afternoons and being able to get outside sun I don't think I'll really need it too much but I figured I might as well install it anyway.

I plan to mount everything directly to the top so after 3-4" of substrate, height will be about 18-19".

Equipment going in is:

VE 80 watt radiant heat panel
Arcadia Pro T5 12% 24 UVB
Ceramic base with 65 watt flood
and 36 inch led bar from Amazon

True inside dimensions are 46.5" x 22.5" x 22.5"

View attachment 398279

You are finding out one reason why I don't recommend 2 ft wide enclosures. Just not enough room to properly lay out electronics!

You are using all the things I would use in your situation - fixture wise. Here is how I would lay it out given your dimensions. (everything is to exact scale)



I don't like to put the UVB right next to the side of a PVC enclosure. It cuts the effective basking zone beneath in half, but also UV will degrade PVC. I Don't know if the PVC of your enclosure is UV resistant, but it still can make it brittle and degrade it over time with such extreme exposure if place right by the side.

The RHP to one side will also give a small heat gradient at night with the lights off

You will need to monitor temperatures when all lights are on. The HO tubes run hot and will produce quite a bit of heat. In a closed chamber with the LED strip plus UVB and basking - you may find the enclosure can overheat with all 3 on. In my closed chambers I have a separate overheat protection by putting the basking on its own thermostat set to "cool" - that will turn it off when temperatures reach the set point. I set mine at 92° with a differential set to 4°. This will especially be of note in the summer when the room temperature in which the enclosure is located is higher.

 

[fritzgerald]

You are finding out one reason why I don't recommend 2 ft wide enclosures. Just not enough room to properly lay out electronics!

You are using all the things I would use in your situation - fixture wise. Here is how I would lay it out given your dimensions. (everything is to exact scale)

View attachment 398292

I don't like to put the UVB right next to the side of a PVC enclosure. It cuts the effective basking zone beneath in half, but also UV will degrade PVC. I Don't know if the PVC of your enclosure is UV resistant, but it still can make it brittle and degrade it over time with such extreme exposure if place right by the side.

The RHP to one side will also give a small heat gradient at night with the lights off

You will need to monitor temperatures when all lights are on. The HO tubes run hot and will produce quite a bit of heat. In a closed chamber with the LED strip plus UVB and basking - you may find the enclosure can overheat with all 3 on. In my closed chambers I have a separate overheat protection by putting the basking on its own thermostat set to "cool" - that will turn it off when temperatures reach the set point. I set mine at 92° with a differential set to 4°. This will especially be of note in the summer when the room temperature in which the enclosure is located is higher.

Thanks @Markw84. I thought the RHP would do better in the center and didn't think about putting it to one side or the corner. 4x2 seemed more roomy until I started trying to fit everything in.

I should really only need the UVB a couple months this time of year, when it's colder and too overcast to get outside. Everything except the RHP will be here in a couple hours so I'll be able to start monitoring temps with everything turned on.

Itm trying to wrap my head around your basking lamp setup, am I thinking correctly or am I way off base? Thermostat has heat and cool, lamp is connected to cool and heat is empty. SV is set to 92 with 4 diff. Thermostat on a timer. So in operation, the basking lamp comes on with the timer, stays on unless the temp reaches 96 max or timer turns off?

I have 6 sensors going inside already (tortoise level: one in each corner, one on the back wall for ambient, one in the humid hide, then one up top that will trigger 40mm vent fans if temps get too high), then the thermostat sensor for the RHP. After your basking info, I'll probably pick up another thermostat for the basking light too depending on how my temps look.

Ambient room temps stay between 72-78 year round, unless we have a power outage, the thermostat is set to stay in that range and we never adjust it.

Sorry for the novel and 20 questions. I just wanna make sure I get this all dialed in, the right way, before he shows up and you all are light-years beyond me in knowledge.

 

[Markw84]

@fitzgerald I use a separate thermostat for the basking overheat protection. With the thermostat set to 92°, the basking light will be on until the sensor gets to 92° and then shuts off. I use the 4° differential so the basking light will not come on again until the sensor cools to 88° and turns the basking light back on. This allows a greater time for the on/off cycle as I don't want to have the basking light going on and off every 10 minutes or so. I don't mind a 1 hour+ cycle as I feel it imitates a cloudy day with the sun in and out of cloud cover.

Using a fan on the cool mode of a thermostat can work, however, it also really kills the humidity level in an enclosure. One of my GTA partners in S Florida uses that setup as he fights too much humidity in his closed chambers, but for most of us, it will dry the enclosure too much. As a result, I use the overheat thermostat method and adjust wattage of the basking light getting a 75 or even 50 watt basking bulb.

 

[fritzgerald]

@fitzgerald I use a separate thermostat for the basking overheat protection. With the thermostat set to 92°, the basking light will be on until the sensor gets to 92° and then shuts off. I use the 4° differential so the basking light will not come on again until the sensor cools to 88° and turns the basking light back on. This allows a greater time for the on/off cycle as I don't want to have the basking light going on and off every 10 minutes or so. I don't mind a 1 hour+ cycle as I feel it imitates a cloudy day with the sun in and out of cloud cover.

Using a fan on the cool mode of a thermostat can work, however, it also really kills the humidity level in an enclosure. One of my GTA partners in S Florida uses that setup as he fights too much humidity in his closed chambers, but for most of us, it will dry the enclosure too much. As a result, I use the overheat thermostat method and adjust wattage of the basking light getting a 75 or even 50 watt basking bulb.

Thanks. I played around with it last night and I completely understand how you set up the overheat protection now.

The vent fans aren't going to be controlled by a cool side of a thermostat but, I took the that idea back to the drawing board and I'm going to table it until I get the design worked out. Instead of a single sensor triggering them, I'm going to take reading from all sensors and if the enclosure starts getting too hot, it'll kick a relay on to evacuate some hot air on one side and draw in cooler room temp air on the other, then shut off.