How about this...

[Kymiie]

Posted a thread yesterday...Here it is
http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-10482.html

Thanks for everybodys help and advice...

I have raised the enclosure off of the floor...
Is this better?

Just to let you know I do take in what you all say and have just got me and my boyfriend to swap all my room around for crush to see if this works for heat!
As for him roaming I know most of you dont like it, but everybody has thier opinion, i watch him 24/7 and he is not a dog so therefor he doesnt eat everything he sees on the floor so I know he hasnt eaten anything he shouldnt!

As for the move he is now out happily running around in his enclosure nice awake and warm so I think raising him has worked!

THANKS GUYS!!

xxxx
Tell Me What You Think

 

[Yvonne G]

Much better! I'm curious about your lighting. I only see one fixture. Do you use the UV lights, and some sort of heat/light for night warmth?

 

[Kymiie]

He has a UVB straight in the middle of the enclosure thats what the piece of wood in the middle is, and that is a heat lamp for him during day and night.
xxxx

 

[Meg90]

It looks very small...do you have a picture of him in as a size reference?

 

[Kymiie]

That is him in his enclosure, I know it is a bit small, but he does get plenty of exercise even if u do think its in the wrong way, as i said he gets vet checks every 3 month so the vet will tell me if im doing anything wrong.

The vet says I can have him on the floor, but to watch everything.

xx

again excuse the mess he is being cleand out later

 

[Maggie Cummings]

The UVB light needs to be 14 to 16 inches away from the tortoise. That ain't happening in your enclosure. Also there's no hide. The substrate is practically nil, so you can't create any humidity and that is so important for a Sulcata. They like to burrow and throw substrate around and you have what look like aspen shavings which cannot hold any moisture and Crush can't burrow in it. Humidity is necessary to prevent pyramiding. I have an enclosure that is about the same size as yours only I have substrate, the correct lighting and hides...Here's a picture of one of my enclosures. You need to do something like that for Crush...I have 27 chelonia, this is just one of my enclosures. The clamp light on the left has a black light bulb in it for nighttime warmth. You can see the Trex UVB bulb up high, but the correct light fixture stopped working so the light you see is not the correct fixture, but I'll get one as soon as I can walk on my feet. This one the hood is too small, but it has a ceramic base and that's important.
But the point of this picture is that maybe the container might be a bit small it still has good substrate that is kept moist for the needed humidity. You can see 2 hides and a registered antique brick with a thermometer. While the tank might be small it has everything a small tortoise needs for healthy growth and a good life. Can't you do something like this for crush?

This is Max my retriever...that's his favorite toy in his mouth...

You act like your Vet is the be all end all...and he is wrong about allowing a small tortoise like Crush on the floor. If you laid down on the floor and put your cheek on the bare floor you can feel how cold it is and that is bad for a small tortoise. There's a cool draft along the floor, and that's bad for a small tortoise. Plus all the stuff he can eat, cat toys or dust bunnies or paper clips. I'd be willing to bet my car ...that you aren't watching him the whole time he is walking around on your floor. It's just a really bad idea. You'll think so when you have a small tortoise with an URTI.
I wonder why you have to take him to the Vet so often...smacks like dollar signs to me...
We are trying to give you good advice and help you with Crush, but it seems as tho you would rather listen to your vet. We offer our experienced advice for free. Your Vet is charging you for advice that is not right. You say Crush is not a dog therefore he won't eat anything on the floor...but he is a tortoise therefore he WILL eat everything he can get into his mouth.
I can tell you are trying, and I appreciate that. I do see an improvement in his enclosure, so I'll just leave it at that and move on...

 

[Kymiie]

I take him to the vets because i lost a hatchling due to wrong information! Sorry to be angry but you all make it sound as if I want to kill crush! I take him to the vets for check ups, the UK is not as good as the USA to keep a tortoise! I am taking in all of your information that everybody tells me I have just spent an hour swapping my room around for crush so he is not on the floor so please dont tell me I dont look after him..i try my bloody damn hardest!

I listen to all opinions, but people give you so much different information in wich it works for them but tey truth is nobody will know the real truth behind them. What works for some people dont always work for others.

Yes i do watch him all the time i coe home from school, have y tea hen have him out!
My house has underfloor heating as we had it changed from radiators and when crush is out on my carpet he is fine!

This thread was a simple question that turned in to people hating me thinking i dont look after him properly.. Im learning thats all Ive had 1 years experiance and you guys what.. 20? Im just learnig doing my best to keep this fella alive as when sheffie died it was horrific I was 16 and had to go on a school trip that night so i never got to bury him etc...the vet was going to put him to sleep i said no it was horrid, so all i want to do is do my best

 

[Yvonne G]

Kymiie:

You are so far off base! We don't hate you at all. We have only the best interest of your tortoise in mind when we offer advice. No hate intended! Please don't feel that way. This is a very friendly and loving group of people, and we don't allow any hatred or verbal abuse of any kind. If I thought Maggie's post was hateful, I would have deleted it in a minute. But it is full of good advice. She's also right about vets. Unless they have their own collection of tortoises, they usually don't know and aren't up on the current advice for keeping tortoises. They are there for health problems, not for tortoise-keeping problems.

And a note to Maggie: You have sulcata on the brain. Crush is a little Hermann's tortoise!!

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I don't think any of us think you are trying to kill him. We are all just trying to help. You asked for help and I am trying to give it, I am sorry you think we aren't experienced at tortoise care. I was just trying to help, I even went and took a picture of one of my habitats. then downloaded it into my computer, looked for the tiny url, finally found it and sent it to you and what I get from you is yelled at.
For instance I didn't say you didn't look after him...I just tried to help you, but help is not what you want, and I am not going to fight with you while you make false accusations...I am sorry you have chosen to go this route.

 

[Meg90]

If you really want what is best for him, then please make his enclosure bigger. Its not healthy for him to be in such a small area...how can he properly thermoregulate? Its unfair for him to not have any space, or territory of his own, and for you to think that putting him on the floor to walk around replaces that.

Torts in the wild stake a claim to an area, and then stay there. Its there's. In captivity, most tortoises can be easily upset by their owners just rearranging the plants or hides in their enclosures. All three of my tortoises like their habitats a certain way. If I move things, appetites decrease, they hide more because they don't feel secure.

I understand that you want to do right by your tortoise, especially after losing one. If you don't mind my asking, what happened with your last?

Also, Maggie brings up a great point in that you don't have any humidity for him, and he is a growing tort. That's just asking for pyramiding. If he's only 4yrs old, he will be growing for a while. And room ambient humidity doesn't cut it, because under heat lamps, it just dissipates.

Not having a hide is also EXTREMELY stressful. They need a familiar, safe place to retreat too. Without that, they are forced to stay drawn inside their shells for safety...and if you have seen pics, that is not the natural state of things...most torts spend a good part of the day spread out, basking.

Basically, I think that his enclosure is wrong. I would tell this same thing to anyone, I am not trying to pick on you. But its obviously too small, and lacking some basic necessities.

My hatchling has an enclosure about that size...but she's not even 2.5 inches long, and I will be upgrading her in the next few months because it seems like she's already outgrowing it.

 

[reptylefreek]

If you could make it the whole length and width as your dresser that would suffice for a bit. Even if he does get plenty of exercise on the floor I bet he would really love an enclosure that he could really explore. My marlin gets the floor now and then but I change his cage around so he always has something new to check out and he really does seem to like it

 

[Kadaan]

Just by joining this forum and posting and being open to advice, you're already in the top 10% of tortoise owners worldwide .

 

[Kymiie]

Ok im sorry for getting mad but thats how i felt! Sorry for causing upset to everyone!
But I really do listen to you advices, and change where i can (money & time wise)

My little tortoise sheffie.... Here is the story!
Bought him 1 hours drive away, £300 complete with a viverium
On his birth cirtificate he was 1... no way was he 1 as joy (tortoise sanctuary lady) told me!
So i had this 4 month old tortoise in a viv... Right PANIC!

Had him jul-oct 08 he died.... I woke up one sunday to go to work at 10... I fed sheffie at 9 and he did wake up fine and ate everything and roamed in his cage etc.
Come home from work at 5...he was asleep in a corner so i took him out and petted his head... no movement so All i did was cry cry cry!

Trying to get hold of a vet because i didnt know if he was hybernating or what.. was all new to me.

Got hold of a vet...she said best thing was to put him to sleep (shes not a reptile vet) but does no something.. (my other vet was closed he does specialise in torts. I screamed and said no.. she never even told me what was wrong other than he may have eaten bleach yh right because i feed him bleach never been near him. So we come out the vets and wow an eye half opened he was still alive! or thats what i thought

Got him home and rung a lady about 7 hours from me (another tortoise lady)... she said to drown him for a second in warm water to see if bubbles came...got mum to do this as i was distrraught. WOW a bubble...asked me to do it again...no bubble!

She said it shounds like he has died! but keep him under full heat heat lamp to see iof it helps over night

Next morning I was on a school trip looked at him (as his cage was covered with towels so that i could sleep) He OMG he was so puffy it was obvious he had gone to heaven... Took him to a reptile pet shop (another one) they confired his death said it was probibly respiration failure from the viv!

When i come off my trip I had a new tortoise waiting for me...crush. was delighted but wasnt over sheffie!


3 weeks latewr we built him a tortoise box and he is still here now!

So that my mystery heartbeaking story of sheffie, wish it never happened but yano!!

xx

---

P.S IF YOU LOOK AT THE FIRST ATTATCHED PHOTO AT THE TOP YOU WILL BE ABLE TO SEE THAT HE HAS A HIDE
THANK YOU EVERYBODY!
OFF TO SCHOOL NOW THEN DRIVING LESSON#1
TALK SOON
XX

 

[Kymiie]

So finished school and driving today!!

PASSED!!!

and crush is very active too xx

 

[DAC8671]

Not trying to fuel a fire here, but torts will eat what they want to eat. Case in point.....Ralph roams the backyard. 99% of the time I make sure everything is picked up. But when he sought out a piece of the kids' sidwalk chalk (I didn't see it underneath a shelf) and ate it I FREAKED OUT. I know it's not toxic, but didn't know if it's non toxic to torts. Then there is the time he ate a bird feather. Let's not get started on the dog poop.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that we all love our torts/turts. We've all made some type of mistakes. You take what you can get from all the advice given. Am I an expert? In no way/shape/form. Just because my tort is doing okay now doesn't mean I've messed up with him. You can bet that I scour the yard for dog poop now. I make sure ALL the toys are up. I check for feathers and anything that the neighbor kids may have thrown in the backyard. This is all before/during/and after I left Ralph out of his enclosure.

They will eat what they want to eat. It doesn't matter if you "think" they won't.

I hope everything is going well with him. Please take the help and advice to heart. And remember, we can't hear the emotion that is being put into the posts. It's very easy to misread someone's post and take it the wrong way.

Hang in there and keep us updated with posts and pictures!

 

[Meg90]

His enclosure needs work. You can't deny that. Its way, way, way wayyyy too small, and he does not have any enrichment and I still don't see his hide. His enclosure should look something like this:

or this:

They need things to hide under and walk around. Plants, rocks, log hides...slate tile for eating and a nice clean waterdish for drinking. Tortoises need alot of space. The second picture is my adult male greek's home. He's 5.5in, and his bin is 51 inches long, and 18inches wide and I still wish I could give him MORE room.

And from your other story, I cannot for the life of me tell why you freaked out about your baby that day at 5pm? My two littles are asleep by then. I never wake them up. Was he not breathing then? Why did the vet want to put him to sleep? Was he just not warm enough, not active? Did you have UVB on him? My youngest tort doesn't move a lot when I hold her. She "freezes" because the big scary food lady has her in her hand. They are prey...

I think his cause of death was drowning, but I don't know WHY you had to drown him. Please explain how you were keeping him, substrate, temps, diet and heating/lighting.

 

[Kymiie]

NO MEG 90 you have totally got the wrong nd of the stick!
I didnt drown him for 30 minutes it was like a second to find an air bubble
there is a difference from not moving and near death!
From about the time me panicing and the vet and then ringing the lady he was in all of the same position so no movement at all!!!!!!!!!!!

Im no expert but i do know when he was just being a baby tort and when he was nearly dead!

You had to be there to know its hard to explain an illness He wasnt moving nor awake or anything
So please dont tell me that drowning him killed him because i knoe for a fact it did not! Now that has hurt!

He does have a hide, cuttle fish and a fresh water everyday bowl...he is more active now and all I think is the problem now is his box size!

The vet wanted to put him asleep as she said he was alive but on the edge of death anyway and the kindest thing was to put him asleep however i did not allow her to do this as it was all new to me!
But the next morning he was puffy and well... i knew he had passed then!

The exclosure was all worng i know that because he had a viv and wrong substrate but that was it but i also know that didnt kill him! I know it!

 

[Meg90]

I said cause of death. I didn't say you killed him. If someone goes to the hospital after a car wreak and dies from a punctured lung, they didn't die from the accident...their "cause of death" was a punctured lung.

There was something wrong with him if he stopped moving. It wasn't an illness if you fed him and watched him eat that morning. Something else happened during the day. I wanted to figure out what...I hate mysteries.

 

[Kymiie]

If I knew I would tell you!
Everyday I blame my self and wonder..but in fact its all down to the pet shop!
What i got told from another pet shop was they thoght it sounded like respirity failure.. and i dont even know what that is caused by so yano :/

Still a mystry to me.. and it wasnt anything i did because crush is kept the same as sheffie was and iv had crush 1.1mnth years and sheffie i had 4..


xxx

 

[Yvonne G]

Its always hard to lose an animal friend. I'm so sorry you lost your baby.