How do I increase my Tortois' KILLER INSTINCT ???

[luke]

I wasn't sure where to post this so here it is.

I usually feed my redfoots low fat cat food once a week as their only source of animal protein. I started mixing it up last week with a bit of fried egg, and Today I offered them each a meal worm with their salad. Anyhow, my largest redfoot, Atticus, didnt recognize the worm as food. I know he saw him for sure. He even gave it a couple of sniffs, but he never bothered to sample it. I've never seen Atticus eating bugs or slugs either. He does like cat food tho. My smaller redfoot, Ramona, is a natural born killer. My wife has seen her, on several occasions, eating slugs and caterpillar. Today, as soon as Ramona saw the worm she went to work on it and it was gone in just a few seconds.
I just want to make sure my Torts get their protein. I also want to move away from cat food which I've been using for the passed year. Any advice would be appreciated.

The reason I posted this here and not in the redfoot Forum is because I also offered a meal worm to my Leos. I've been reading that most young Tortoises are opportunist and it is very possible that many of them will take on small critters to supplement their diet given that most young torts spend a lot of time in small crevices where they can come into contact with bugs and worms. I've personally seen Koopa eat a caterpillar so I was a little surprised when he showed no interest today. Do any of you guys ever offer your young Leos a worm or slug? I'm thinking of offering them critters about once a month. Does this seem Ok?

 

[Jacqui]

The movement of the bug may not have caught the interest of the tortoise or sometimes too much movement can also scare them. I would just keep offering different items and see how they react, because I know not all my redfoots will eat the same things. Most like the worms and the butterworms, and a few absolutely think they are in heaven, if I feed them a dead mouse.

 

[dmmj]

With leos I would avoid animal protein. A worm once a month won't cause any major harm, but with them being herbivores, leaves weeds and flowers would be a better choice for them.

 

[Tom]

Try earthworms or feeder roaches with Atticus. Ramona will dig them too.

The bugs for leopards thing is very debatable. I don't think an occasional bug will hurt them, and I agree that it is likely they would occasionally encounter and eat one in the wild. I can also tell you that they will grow up just fine with out it. Hatchling nutrition for African tortoises is a subject that not much is known about. MUCH more study is needed. I was told by a friend of a field researcher that mammal feces is one of the primary foods of young wild leopards. Good luck simulating that one. A recent book I just read on sulcatas states that carrion is relished by wild sulcatas and consumed whenever possible.

... We have much to learn.

 

[luke]

The movement of the bug may not have caught the interest of the tortoise or sometimes too much movement can also scare them. I would just keep offering different items and see how they react, because I know not all my redfoots will eat the same things. Most like the worms and the butterworms, and a few absolutely think they are in heaven, if I feed them a dead mouse.

LOL, Yeah the worm startled atticus today when he was trying to eat his salad. He practically jumped out of his feeding dish. It was hilarious.

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Try earthworms or feeder roaches with Atticus. Ramona will dig them too.

The bugs for leopards thing is very debatable. I don't think and occasional bug will hurt them, and I agree that it is likely they would occasionally encounter and eat one in the wild. I can also tell you that they will grow up just fine with out it. Hatchling nutrition for African tortoises is a subject that not much is known about. MUCH more study is needed. I was told by a friend of a field researcher that mammal feces is one of the primary foods of young wild leopards. Good luck simulating that one. A recent book I just read on sulcatas states that carrion is relished by wild sulcatas and consumed whenever possible.

... We have much to learn.

I tried night-crawlers in their Bioactive system I had for them back in Cali. I never actually saw them hunting for the worms, but who knows what they do when no one is looking. Those feeder roaches look nasty. Do you think its strange that I've never seen my leos eating their own feces? I have seen my Reds doing it from time to time.

 

[Neal]

I have not fed my leopards bugs or worms, but they do spend a lot of time outside, even the hatchlings, and I have to think they come across a bug at some point. If you try it out, let us know how it goes.

I would keep trying with the worms. They may not "get it" at first, but once they do you will never have a problem tying to get them to eat it again.

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Do you think its strange that I've never seen my leos eating their own feces? I have seen my Reds doing it from time to time.

I don't ever see our babcocki leopards eat their feces. Our pardalis leopards will eat their feces almost before I can clean them up.

 

[Snapper925]

My red foot will not eat worms, but when he gets that occassional pinkie(frozen/thawed) he charges that food dish

 

[Jacqui]

I don't ever see our babcocki leopards eat their feces. Our pardalis leopards will eat their feces almost before I can clean them up.

Now that's interesting. Any idea why that might be?

 

[Neal]

Don't know really. Perhaps the diet of South African leopards is not as nutritious as would be in the East African range. The babcocki's natural diet consists of a lot of succulents and a very low amount of grass, whereas the pardalis's natural diet consists of mostly grasses...from what I have been able to gather. So perhaps they're programmed to suck each little nutrient out of whatever they're eating, and so their instincts are to eat their poop.

There's quite a bit of difference between the two leopards I have found, such as pardalis leopards are significantly less prone to pyramiding...which is odd to me because of the info I am gathering, areas in the south where leopards occur are quite a bit dryer than areas where they are found in the east. Perhaps that could be a subject for a different thread. Sorry to take yours off topic Luke, but Jacqui made me do it.

 

[Jacqui]

Sorry to take yours off topic Luke, but Jacqui made me do it.

Sure blame it all on me.

 

[luke]

Its all good. I'm sure feces is something that's on all our minds. As far as the protein, I'm just going to make sure that my Torts are hungry before I offer them new sources of protein. I'll be back for more input if that doesn't work.

 

[Madkins007]

My guys have never been real excited by earthworms, but do go after slugs, bugs, superworms, chicken chunks, oily fish chunks (I generally use canned mackerel), and, of course, pinkies.

Just try something else and see what happens. They don't need much animal protein in their diet, so if they decide to not eat whatever you offer this time, it is not a big deal.

 

[luke]

What are pinkies?

 

[Sammy]

Baby mice, pink no fur

 

[luke]

alive? I wont tell my wife.

 

[Tom]

I have seen box turtles that were not crazy about super worms lunge and attack a wiggling roach on its back... Just sayin'.

Neal and Jacqui, you two thread hijackers..., My pp never eat their poop. They certainly walk all in it and leave it in the water dishes, but I've never seen them eat it or show any evidence of "the black mouth". And Neal, what have you read to suggest that East Africa is wetter than the South. I was under the impression that it was just the opposite. We had lots of rain and humidity in the South during the four months that I was there. Drier up near Jo'berg though. And I've seen you mention the pp are less prone to pyramiding a few times now. I have not shares this experience either. The breeder of my Gpp has multiple colonies of leopards from throughout the range. He raises them all the same and they all show about the same level of pyramiding. That's just one example. Another friend has around 8. Two of his are from SA and they are also pyramided about the same as his babcockii.

Should we start a thread? Love to discuss this all more. I hate being ignorant. I'd love to be corrected if I'm wrong about any of this.

 

[Jacqui]

alive? I wont tell my wife.

You could do either way, because a pinky won't be able to attack and hurt your tortoise back. A lot would depend on if you have issues feeding them alive and then if your tortoise needs more the stimulation provided by moving foods.

It's all going to end up being a more hit and miss method to find out what your tortoises like of any of the suggested food items and how they want them "served".

 

[luke]

Thanks for all the great ideas guys. I'll stick to worms for now, untill I have their new closed enclosures ready I'll steer clear of roaches. I dont want them getting out and scaring my wife. As far as pinkies go. I think I'll wait until they get a little bigger before I try them. I just dont want to be picking up baby mice body parts if my torts dont finish.

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

My redfoot used to like snails, slugs, and rolly-pollies, and even liked scavenging the meat off the bones of cooked chicken, but she was never interested in earthworms, and even appeared to be frightened of them. My boxies went nuts for earthworms, but I think redfoots don't like wrangling with them.