How should i control the temperature of a heat pad?

[Tom]

@AshleeSparling
Why are there three probes? You only need one thermostat.

All three probes are right under your CHEs. They should be over to the far side of the enclosure away from the CHEs.

You are losing a tremendous amount of the electric heat that you are generating by having the heat outside the enclosure. Much of the heat is dissipating into the room, and the heat the does make it inside rises up and out due to the chimney effect.

This tortoise is too large for CHEs and heat lamps. Those will burn the carapace if they are close enough to be effective. Its time for a new strategy. I would recommend a Kane mat under a large RHP. Set both on the same thermostat and put the probe over on ether other side of the enclosure. You'll have to make a raised platform for the Kane mat to keep the substrate off of it. Put these inside the enclosure and close up the holes on the top.

 

[Wpagey]

I realize there are several things going on here, but is there any merit to the idea of using a rheostat adjusted to keeping a Kane mat surface temp of 80 degrees together with the CHE heating from above to balance out the temperature imbalance? Both the top and bottom heat could then be controlled with a thermostat. Just a thought to address the concern about smaller torts getting overheated by the mat.

 

[Tom]

I realize there are several things going on here, but is there any merit to the idea of using a rheostat adjusted to keeping a Kane mat surface temp of 80 degrees together with the CHE heating from above to balance out the temperature imbalance? Both the top and bottom heat could then be controlled with a thermostat. Just a thought to address the concern about smaller torts getting overheated by the mat.

The point of the Kane mat is to help the tortoise warm up above ambient. If the surface only gets to 80, the tortoise can never warm up. The Kane mat needs to be "on" at full power whenever the air temp is below the set point.

 

[Maggie3fan]

I realize there are several things going on here, but is there any merit to the idea of using a rheostat adjusted to keeping a Kane mat surface temp of 80 degrees together with the CHE heating from above to balance out the temperature imbalance? Both the top and bottom heat could then be controlled with a thermostat. Just a thought to address the concern about smaller torts getting overheated by the mat.

Smaller tortoises should not ever use a mat. When I talk about mine there a Sulcata tortoise I use it for Not a Redfoot, or Hermanni or Russian...young tortoises are generally too dumb to get off a hot mat, and I'm not sure if a growing plastron could be damaged by the hot mat. I only use them for larger torts and older

 

[AshleeSparling]

@AshleeSparling
Why are there three probes? You only need one thermostat.

All three probes are right under your CHEs. They should be over to the far side of the enclosure away from the CHEs.

You are losing a tremendous amount of the electric heat that you are generating by having the heat outside the enclosure. Much of the heat is dissipating into the room, and the heat the does make it inside rises up and out due to the chimney effect.

This tortoise is too large for CHEs and heat lamps. Those will burn the carapace if they are close enough to be effective. Its time for a new strategy. I would recommend a Kane mat under a large RHP. Set both on the same thermostat and put the probe over on ether other side of the enclosure. You'll have to make a raised platform for the Kane mat to keep the substrate off of it. Put these inside the enclosure and close up the holes on the top.

There aren't enough outlets on one thermostat to control all the bulbs so I do need more than one probe since there is
more than one thermostat.
Would a zoomed habitat heater suffice? I can't keep everything on the same thermostat because there's only 2 outlets. I'm still unsure what products to purchase. A Kane pig mat is a bit out of my price range since I also need to buy another controler

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hello!

You can use simple power strips to connect all heat sources to a one thermostat. If I remember, you have 1200Watt rated thermostats - it has enough capacity to hold all the CHEs and a heat mat.

As for the heat mat, I would try to get a Kane mat (the cheapest, without rheostats and thermostats). Tom explained that they have a lot of safety measures built-in and that justifies the price. Also, Stanfield mats worth looking - I see many positive reviews on the forum. And only then go to ZooMed - I don't see negative reviews as well, however it automatically switches off at 115F, which may be too hot.

P.S. - How's Lewis?

 

[Len B]

The point of the Kane mat is to help the tortoise warm up above ambient. If the surface only gets to 80, the tortoise can never warm up. The Kane mat needs to be "on" at full power whenever the air temp is below the set point.

Why does the mat temperature need to be higher than 80 if the ambient surrounding temperature is at the correct temperature?. 80 degrees is a good and safe temperature for belly heat. I don't use Kane I use Stanfield mats but I believe they work the same. I'm also a believer in rheostats over thermostats in some circumstances.

 

[Wpagey]

Smaller tortoises should not ever use a mat. When I talk about mine there a Sulcata tortoise I use it for Not a Redfoot, or Hermanni or Russian...young tortoises are generally too dumb to get off a hot mat, and I'm not sure if a growing plastron could be damaged by the hot mat. I only use them for larger torts and older

We use a mat for our sulcata too. I was thinking that keeping the mat at a safe and desirable 80 degrees would keep the babies belly warm without endangering them.

 

[Wpagey]

The point of the Kane mat is to help the tortoise warm up above ambient. If the surface only gets to 80, the tortoise can never warm up. The Kane mat needs to be "on" at full power whenever the air temp is below the set point.

Since the Kane mat is designed to keep a temperature of 37 degrees above ambient, how hot is too hot for the mat? I’ve heard a lot of concern for burning the torts belly, and thought an overall 80 was the goal, with the overhead heat being primary.

 

[Tom]

Why does the mat temperature need to be higher than 80 if the ambient surrounding temperature is at the correct temperature?. 80 degrees is a good and safe temperature for belly heat. I don't use Kane I use Stanfield mats but I believe they work the same. I'm also a believer in rheostats over thermostats in some circumstances.

Because if a tortoise has been out cruising around in colder air and losing heat, and then comes into its house and lays on an 80 degree surface, it can't ever warm up above 80. They need to be able to thermoregulate and get their body temp at least into the 90s. With enough time on an 80 degree mat their plastron can warm up to 80, but that is not enough. I use the heat mats the same way I use a basking bulb for smaller tortoises. It provides an area warmer than ambient for them to go to and get their core temperature up to operating temperature.

 

[Tom]

Since the Kane mat is designed to keep a temperature of 37 degrees above ambient, how hot is too hot for the mat? I’ve heard a lot of concern for burning the torts belly, and thought an overall 80 was the goal, with the overhead heat being primary.

I've been using Kane mats for decades. I've never used them with a rheostat, and I have them set to be "on" when ever the air temp in the farthest coolest corner of the box is less than the set point of the thermostat. Not one problem with a thermal burn ever. 80 degrees is not warm enough.

If you want to heat a 60 degree object up to 95 degrees, which is what I'm trying to do for a tropical giant tortoise on a cold overcast winter day, how can you do that with an 80 degree surface? You can't. And even if 80 is your goal, how long does it take a tortoise to go from 60 to 80 on an 80 degree mat versus a 100 degree mat?

 

[Tom]

There aren't enough outlets on one thermostat to control all the bulbs...

 

[AshleeSparling]

Hello!

You can use simple power strips to connect all heat sources to a one thermostat. If I remember, you have 1200Watt rated thermostats - it has enough capacity to hold all the CHEs and a heat mat.

As for the heat mat, I would try to get a Kane mat (the cheapest, without rheostats and thermostats). Tom explained that they have a lot of safety measures built-in and that justifies the price. Also, Stanfield mats worth looking - I see many positive reviews on the forum. And only then go to ZooMed - I don't see negative reviews as well, however it automatically switches off at 115F, which may be too hot.

P.S. - How's Lewis?

I will look into a Kane mat and return to share the one I picked. Lewis is doing great, he didn't end up going to the vet a couple weeks ago due to weather but every day he gets more active and I can see his personality coming back, he's very friendly again. The cold weather may be making him a little colder than he would like to be, but he's staying around 90° and basking directly under the heat lamps. The infrared thermometer I have is reading at 75° on the cold side

 

[Wpagey]

I've been using Kane mats for decades. I've never used them with a rheostat, and I have them set to be "on" when ever the air temp in the farthest coolest corner of the box is less than the set point of the thermostat. Not one problem with a thermal burn ever. 80 degrees is not warm enough.

If you want to heat a 60 degree object up to 95 degrees, which is what I'm trying to do for a tropical giant tortoise on a cold overcast winter day, how can you do that with an 80 degree surface? You can't. And even if 80 is your goal, how long does it take a tortoise to go from 60 to 80 on an 80 degree mat versus a 100 degree mat?

With the overhead RHP. The 80 degree surface and ambient temp will get you to 80 degrees no? I'm not trying to upset any applecarts, I just want to understand how hot is too hot for their belly, and interested in keeping a consistent 80 degree tort. We use the mat also, without a rheostat, and it's been working nicely. When first figuring out the set up for our big sulcata I got roundly YELLED at for asking if the mat was a good idea, and asking any questions. Thankfully I found some support for the idea here. I agree with the change of strategy for the person with the original question. Thanks for taking the time to offer some guidance for people needing it.

 

[Tom]

With the overhead RHP. The 80 degree surface and ambient temp will get you to 80 degrees no?

Yes, but very slowly. And 80 is the minimum air temp, not the desired core temp for the tropical giant tortoise species.

Also, the heating elements need to get higher than 80 when outside temps are in the 30s in winter here. Having the surfaces of the Kane mat and RHP hotter than 80 is what eventually gets the air temperatures inside the box up to 80 or more.

In other words if its cold outside, and your mat only goes to 80, it will never get things inside the box warm enough.

 

[AshleeSparling]

I will look into a Kane mat and return to share the one I picked. Lewis is doing great, he didn't end up going to the vet a couple weeks ago due to weather but every day he gets more active and I can see his personality coming back, he's very friendly again. The cold weather may be making him a little colder than he would like to be, but he's staying around 90° and basking directly under the heat lamps. The infrared thermometer I have is reading at 75° on the cold side

I measured Lewis he is 15" long and almost 11" wide, I don't think an 18x18 would be big enough for very long so I think I'll get this one? Just to clarify, is this how I should set up my heating for his enclosure?
1. Remove the second thermostat and get a power strip to connect all the heating elements to the same thermostat.
2. Move the probe from directly under the CHEs to the far side
3. Put the heat pad in on a piece of wood, directly under the CHEs

I do not plan on purchasing a heat mat with a rheostat or a thermostat, nor do i plan on purchasing a new thermostat solely for the heat pad.

Is it extremely dangerous if substrate gets on the heat pad? He is home alone for about 4 hours a day atleast and its possible he will drag substate onto the heat pad at some point when no one is home. He will be getting more substrate soon, but i dont think i want to add a lot until its warmed up and he no longer needs a heat pad.

Is there anything I'm missing or am incorrect about?

 

[Maggie3fan]

I have used a Kane mat with a rheostat for almost 19 years...The rheostat was set when I first got it almost 20 years ago..Every Sulcata that has lived with me has slept on that mat in a 'sleeping box' and there has not ever had a problem..my tort shed

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

I measured Lewis he is 15" long and almost 11" wide, I don't think an 18x18 would be big enough for very long so I think I'll get this one? Just to clarify, is this how I should set up my heating for his enclosure?
1. Remove the second thermostat and get a power strip to connect all the heating elements to the same thermostat.
2. Move the probe from directly under the CHEs to the far side
3. Put the heat pad in on a piece of wood, directly under the CHEs

I do not plan on purchasing a heat mat with a rheostat or a thermostat, nor do i plan on purchasing a new thermostat solely for the heat pad.

Is it extremely dangerous if substrate gets on the heat pad? He is home alone for about 4 hours a day atleast and its possible he will drag substate onto the heat pad at some point when no one is home. He will be getting more substrate soon, but i dont think i want to add a lot until its warmed up and he no longer needs a heat pad.

Is there anything I'm missing or am incorrect about?

1. Yes, the plan with heating rearrangement sounds right.
2. Some substrate on a mat is not dangerous at all.
3. I don't now if 18x18 mat is sufficient for a larger sulcata. But both Kane and Stanfield have large size options. Tom uses 18x28 inches mats for his 4x4ft night boxes.
4. In the future you will have to ditch CHEs and replace them with a radiant heat panel or mini oil-filled radiator. This will help to avoid shell burns and you can finally close the enclosure roof to stop losing heat and humidity because of "chimney effect". Maybe dimmers + CHE combination will work too.

 

[Tom]

I measured Lewis he is 15" long and almost 11" wide, I don't think an 18x18 would be big enough for very long so I think I'll get this one? Just to clarify, is this how I should set up my heating for his enclosure?
1. Remove the second thermostat and get a power strip to connect all the heating elements to the same thermostat.
2. Move the probe from directly under the CHEs to the far side
3. Put the heat pad in on a piece of wood, directly under the CHEs

I do not plan on purchasing a heat mat with a rheostat or a thermostat, nor do i plan on purchasing a new thermostat solely for the heat pad.

Is it extremely dangerous if substrate gets on the heat pad? He is home alone for about 4 hours a day atleast and its possible he will drag substate onto the heat pad at some point when no one is home. He will be getting more substrate soon, but i dont think i want to add a lot until its warmed up and he no longer needs a heat pad.

Is there anything I'm missing or am incorrect about?

He's getting too big for CHEs. Make SURE that the carapace isn't getting over 100 degrees when he's sitting directly under the CHEs for long periods of time.

I prefer the 18x28 mats. Larger than that works too, as long as the tortoise has room to get off of it when it wants too.

A little substrate, poop, hay, dirt or mud on the mat will not hurt anything, but try to keep it off. Make a little raised platform with 2x4s laid flat and plywood to elevate the Kane mat above the substrate a bit. Sweep off the mat daily or as needed. The bottom of the Kane mat can rest directly on wood, as the bottom doesn't get hot at all.

The rest of your plans sound correct.

 

[AshleeSparling]

He's getting too big for CHEs. Make SURE that the carapace isn't getting over 100 degrees when he's sitting directly under the CHEs for long periods of time.

I prefer the 18x28 mats. Larger than that works too, as long as the tortoise has room to get off of it when it wants too.

A little substrate, poop, hay, dirt or mud on the mat will not hurt anything, but try to keep it off. Make a little raised platform with 2x4s laid flat and plywood to elevate the Kane mat above the substrate a bit. Sweep off the mat daily or as needed. The bottom of the Kane mat can rest directly on wood, as the bottom doesn't get hot at all.

The rest of your plans sound correct.