How/whether to hibernate

[numetalkid]

Hey y'all,
We brought what I think is a Greek from a friend's farm (who doesn't seem to know much about it either) into our apartment a couple months back. I know just about zilch when it comes to tortoises, but I adore em so much so I thought I'd procure this mini-fridge for the guy (or girl we don't know) to hibernate in. I think it's been showing signs that it's scouting for a spot to hibernate— it usually withdraws to some corner or wherever's dim/cool.

So I see a lot of posts here asking 'should I hibernate my tortoise?' but I wouldn't know how to? Like, do I just put it in the fridge and see how that goes? Should I be encouraging it like that, or wait? And wait for it to do what? What would be the signs that it's definitely ready?

We made a cardboard box like that guy on YouTube— some dirt at the bottom, packing paper on top. I dropped it in there to see if I can ease it into a sleepy mood but it climbs out of it before long.

I also heard they need to stop eating a couple weeks beforehand. Now that it's getting colder, should we just stop giving it food? It hasn't been drinking water either, do I need to worry about that?

We think it might be 3-4 years old but not sure.
Thanks for any help

 

[KarenSoCal]

First, could you post some pictures of your tortoise? We need to be sure of his species. Also, include a pic of his plastron (bottom shell) clearly showing his tail area. Maybe we can tell if he's a he or a she.

He needs a decent enclosure, not running loose in your apartment. Once we ID him, we can give you advice on all aspects of his care.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[Sarah2020]

General rule of thumb is new tortoise no hybernation or brumation. You do not know it's health and past diet and care to know if it will get through. Share some pics , read the care sheets but be prepared to keep it going with a normal routine through winter with light, heat, humidity, food and soaks.

 

[numetalkid]

Thanks for the replies and here's our little guy (or gal)

We didn't put the nail polish on it, it was there at the farm



Felt bad flipping it over here lol

 

[KarenSoCal]

@Markw84
What species is this?

 

[Sarah2020]

Looks a nice size. Sad about nail polish hopefully it will grow out and you can brush it out during soaks. I think because you do not know it's history, just use the following months to look after it and keep it going on a regular food, heat, light, soak routine and in a years time you try hibernation. It would be sad for it to go wrong.

 

[numetalkid]

Thanks for the advice, but between you and me, I don't know what a regular food, heat, light, soak cycle would involve. It's probably laid out somewhere in the forum, I'm guessing. Could you bring me up to speed on that or show me to a relevant thread?

I also wanna mention what it's up to right now: we keep it in the balcony and even though there's an electric heater (for humans) there, it spends most of the day close to the wall in cold right next to that. When I picked it up for the photos for example it was very cold. So that kinda stuff is what makes me think it wants to hibernate. I'll follow the advice here though.

Also what would be absolutely crucial gear-wise? This isn't my apartment and I only come and go occasionally, so I want to get a picture of what you guys would say are must-haves?? Like I said it doesn't go in front of the heater.

Much appreciated

 

[Sarah2020]

You have joined the correct place to get advice and improve the life and surrounding of your tortoise. Suggest you read this care sheet a couple of times as there is lots if info and then use is for ongoing reference

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

Balcony and human heater is not good as it will be too dry and although you are Istanbul the winter temps will vary and it needs constant now that it is in captivity. Purchase or make a large enclosed enclosure and find a reptile shop for heat light and substrate not soil try for orchid bark. The care sheet will guide you.
As you proceed and have questions then ask.
If you click forums and scroll down you will find a section on Greek tortoise so you can research other peoples questions and advice.

 

[Sarah2020]

Not sure what you mean come and go . They need monitoring for food and water and incase they flip over. If you are not at home then maybe embarking on thus tortoise care is not good and it should be rehomed?

 

[numetalkid]

Oh like it's my aunt's tortoise and it's her apartment not mine. So I don't really call the shots about its care, but I'm trying to learn the best course of action and talk to her about it.

Thanks for the link, I'm gonna read that but I still wanna ask here: last time we tried giving it food it didn't feel like eating, and like I said I never saw it drink water. Is that a concern? What should I put the water in that'll be easy to drink from?

 

[Markw84]

@Markw84
What species is this?

It looks like a 3-4 year old Marginated Tortoise to me. But I get fooled by the Testudos frequently.

Let's get verification from @HermanniChris - Please!

 

[KarenSoCal]

@numetalkid

I've been holding off giving detailed advice until we know for sure what species he is. But please read that care sheet Sarah linked for you. It will all be useful info for you.

Am I correct that your daytime temps are running around 9-10°C? (50°F). And the nights are 4-5°C?
(40°F).

I'm linking a couple other posts that have info for you. Read them and come back with questions. We'll get you (and your aunt) up to speed so your tort can thrive.

BTW, does he have a name? If you want to be sure of the gender, get a pic with him on his back, and take the pic clearly showing the tail and plastron.

4 elements of heating: By Tom
There are four elements to heating and lighting:

Basking bulb. I use 65 watt floods from the hardware store. I run them on a timer and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb.

Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. You'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT.

Light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish.

UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. If you want it anyway, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html

List of foods for torts...

Compiled by Tom:
Good foods for tortoises are "chicories," types of lettuce that are likely to be on the far side of the more common floppy green heads of lettuce most people buy. Anything labeled as simply "chicory" is good, as are radiccio, frisee, escarole, and endive; you might even find something labeled as dandelions. You may find a bag of "Spring" or "Spicy" mix that is good, just check the label to be sure it has some of the chicories I just mentioned. The leaves (just the leaves) of turnips and radishes are also good, as are carrot tops. Collards, mustard greens, bok choy, and other dark, leafy greens are okay as well. If you have any kind of Mexican/hispanic market near you, they will sell cactus, labeled "nopales." Cactus is a great food to rotate in the diet, as it is high in calcium.

You don't need to feed all of these at one time, just make sure your tortoise is getting access to different types of food. As you get more experienced, you can find the better types of food listed on the care sheets.

Here are a whole bunch of non-grocery store suggestions.

Mulberry leaves
Grape vine leaves
Hibiscus leaves
African hibiscus leaves
Blue hibiscus leaves
Rose of Sharon leaves
Rose leaves
Geraniums
Gazanias
Nasturtium
Lavatera
Pansies
Petunias
Hostas
Honeysuckle
Cape honeysuckle
Leaves and blooms from any squash plant, like pumpkin, cucumber, summer squash, etc...
Young spineless opuntia cactus pads

Weeds:

There are soooooooo many...
Dandelion
Mallow
Filaree
Smooth Sow thistle
Prickly Sow thistle
Milk thistle
Goat head weed
Cats ear
Nettles
Trefoil
Wild onion
Wild mustard
Wild Garlic
Clovers
Broadleaf plantain
Narrow leaf plantain
Chick weed
Hawksbit
Hensbit
Hawksbeard

Other good stuff:

Category: Organic sourced diet items

kapidolofarms.com

"Testudo Seed Mix" from http://www.tortoisesupply.com/SeedMixes

Pasture mixes or other seeds from http://www.groworganic.com/seeds.html

Homegrown alfalfa

Mazuri Tortoise Chow

ZooMed Grassland Tortoise Food

Ones that you can buy in every store:
Arugula
Lambs lettuce
Chicory
Kale
Mustard greens
Organic kohlrabi leafs
Organic carrot leafs
Organic radish leafs
Dandelions
Radiccio


Their main diet should be broad leaf weeds, succulents and grasses. Store bought foods are okay, but not the best. Collards and dandelions are a good food, but neither should be used every day. Check out the plant ID section for lots of ideas on weeds to feed. You can get spineless opuntia cactus pads from most Mexican grocery stores, or grow them yourself. You can also easily grow grape leaves, african hibiscus, regular hibiscus (if it will survive in your area), and mulberry leaves. You can try red apple, ice plant, and jade plant too. Also look into Gazania, pansies, nasturtiums, carnations, geraniums and many others. At the grocery store, favor endive and escarole, but also use cilantro, carrot tops, mustard and turnip greens, bok choy, radiccio, swiss chard, watercress, parsley, all the lettuces, etc. Lots of variety is best. There are also tortoise "weed" seed mixes that you can grow. I like the "Testudo Mix" from Tortoisesupply.com.
Buckwheat; cactus; vetch; Mohave aster; creosote bush; desert four o’clock; tacoma stans; bladderpod; globe mallow; goldenhead; burro weed; so many things!


Feeding:
So much contradictory info on this subject. Its simple. What do they eat in the wild. Grass, weeds, leaves, flowers, and succulents. Feed them a huge variety of these things, and you'll have a healthy tortoise. All of these species are very adaptable when it comes to diet and there is a very large margin of error, and many ways to do it right. What if you don't have this sort of "natural" tortoise food available for part of each year because you are in the snow? You will have no choice but to buy grocery store food. What's wrong with grocery store food? It tends to lack fiber, some items are low in calcium or have a poor calcium to phosphorous ratio, and some items have deleterious compounds in them. All of these short comings can be improved with some simple supplementation and amendments. A pinch of calcium two times per week will help fix that problem. You can also leave cuttle bone in the enclosure, so your tortoise can self-regulate its own calcium intake. What about fiber? Soaked horse hay pellets, soaked ZooMed Grassland pellets, Mazuri tortoise chow, "Salad style", "Herbal Hay" both from @TylerStewart and his lovely wife Sarah at Tortoisesupply.com, or many of the dried plants and leaves available from Will @Kapidolo Farms. If you must use grocery store foods, favor endive and escarole as your main staples. Add in arugula, cilantro, kale, collard, mustard and turnip greens, squash leaves, spring mix, romaine, green or red leaf lettuce, butter lettuce, water cress, carrot tops, celery tops, bok choy, and whatever other greens you can find. If you mix in some of the aforementioned amendments, these grocery store foods will offer plenty of variety and fiber and be able to meet your tortoises nutritional needs just fine. I find it preferable to grab a few grapevine or mulberry leaves, or a handful of mallow and clover, or some broadleaf plantain leaves and some grass, but with the right additions, grocery store stuff is fine too. Grow your own stuff, or find it around you when possible. Tyler and Sarah also sell a fantastic Testudo seed mix that is great for ALL tortoise species and also super easy to grow in pots, trays, raised garden beds, or in outdoor tortoise enclosures. When that isn't possible, add a wide variety of good stuff to your grocery store greens to make them better.

Supplements:
I recommend you keep cuttle bone available all the time. Some never use it and some munch on it regularly. Some of mine will go months without touching it, and then suddenly eat the whole thing in a day or two. Sulcatas and leopards grow a lot. This requires a tremendous amount of calcium assimilation over time. A great diet is paramount, but it is still a good idea to give them some extra calcium regularly. I use a tiny pinch of RepCal or ZooMed plain old calcium carbonate twice a week. Much discussion has been given to whether or not they need D3 in their calcium supplement. Personally, I don't think it matters. Every tortoise should be getting adequate UV exposure one way or another, so they should be able to make their own D3. I also like to use a mineral supplement. "MinerAll" is my current brand of choice. It seems to help those tortoises that like to swallow pebbles and rocks. It is speculated that some tortoise eat rocks or substrate due to a mineral deficiency or imbalance. Whatever the reason, "MinerAll" seems to stop it or prevent it. Finally, I like to use a reptile vitamin supplement once a week, to round out any hidden deficiencies that may be in my diet over the course of a year.

 

[HermanniChris]

It’s Testudo graeca graeca for sure.

 

[KarenSoCal]

Now that we know exactly what species and subspecies you have, I would suggest you read this entire post. In it is everything you need to know how to care properly for your tortoise. Just be sure to follow the care for testudo graeca graeca.

Greek Tortoise Care Guide

The Greek Tortoise Care Guide (Testudo graeca ssp) Chris Leone HermanniHaven.com GardenStateTortoise.com theTurtleRoom.com THIS CARE-SHEET IS DETAILED FOR A REASON. READ IT THOROUGHLY BEFORE PROCEEDING WITH OBTAINING A TORTOISE. Moroccan tortoise (Testudo graeca marokkensis) Introduction...

www.tortoiseforum.org

I've read this care sheet, and it looks to me that your tortoise does not brumate. They are also considered sensitive, so must be kept as recommended. They do not tolerate extremes in their habitats.

If you need help or advice how to implement these methods, let us know and we will tag members who know this species.

 

[numetalkid]

Thanks for all the replies, took me a while but I read everything and appreciate the wealth of information. I know that everyone here is very attentive when it comes to caring for them which is wonderful— but I'd really like to know the must-haves because like I said I don't even live there and want to know where to start on a tight budget, so I can bring some essentials that the little guy needs when I go to visit.

So I suppose a basking bulb is a no-brainer. But what about the enclosure? Chris's guide mentions a 4x8 indoor area for 3-4 adults, so what's a good number for one? As for UV, I seem to remember that humans can't get the benefits of sun exposure through glass, so does that also apply to our reptilian friends? Cause it gets plenty of sunlight through the window.

And thanks for the extensive list Karen. Good news is we can procure a lot of the things you mentioned apart from the branded products and what forum members are selling due to geographical reasons But lettuces, grapevine, kale, succulents, cuttlebone etc. and much of your grocery store list should be no trouble getting around here. So we'll mix it up

 

[KarenSoCal]

Tortoises need a large space to walk. Walking is necessary for them to digest their food.So actually, 8'x4' is a good size enclosure for one.

And you are correct about the UVB. Almost all of it is lost passing through glass or plexiglass. About 50% of it is lost passing through regular window screen.