Humidity in the Wild

[Tom]

A subject of much debate that comes up when I discuss my humid and hydrated method for raising babies and preventing pyramiding is that its not the humid in the wild where our tortoises come from. I counter that it is not that humid 2 meters above the ground out in the open where the weather meters are, but that it IS that humid down where the tortoises are hiding in little burrows and plant root balls.

Here is a little bit of evidence to support my argument. This video is about lizards, but there are measurements taken and the data is on display for anyone who cares to see it. Fast forward to 4:40 if you don't want to see the rest of it.

I'd love to hear thoughts on this.

 

[Tom]

@turtlesteve
@Markw84
@Kapidolo Farms
@Yvonne G
@wellington

None of you need convincing, but I thought you might be interested since we've discussed this before.

@jaizei you always ask me for evidence and citations for my assertions. This is certainly no peer reviewed rigorous scientific expedition, but we can both read the meter. Does this count as evidence?

 

[Maro2Bear]

Yep, that all makes sense to me here in Maryland. Almost common sense really. On a baking hot day here the surface area is really hot and dry, but right at ground level and in burrows....ground is humid & moist.

Now, can we talk about all those FLIES all over that guy! Yikes...flies Flies FLIES! At least they didnt appear to be biting flies.

PS - thanks for posting this video @Tom - very interesting & informative & entertaining.

 

[Chubbs the tegu]

Love Dav Kaufmans vids

 

[Blackdog1714]

I would say the loads and loads of nest data that has been acquired help some too! It hurt to read though, just saying!

 

[turtlesteve]

Awesome video and proves the point nicely, in my opinion. I can’t help but wonder if the burrows are always humid or if there is significant seasonal fluctuation.

 

[MichaelL]

Great post! With the gopher tortoises I've seen many babies have their burrows deep in grass, never out in the open like the adults. What fascinates me is that I remember you were saying how someone was raising sulcatas IN their native range said they were skinny, and not thriving. Why do you think that?

 

[Yvonne G]

If the inside of Dudley's shed, after a week of not cleaning it out, is any clue to what a burrow looks like, those burrows would be plenty humid, what with all the poop and pee they deposit in there over time.

 

[LasTortugasNinja]

Yeah, humidity, even at deserts, is really high in the mornings, especially underground where there is lots of water. It always surprised me when people were basically keeping their reptiles inside what was basically a dehydrator and they were surprised that the animal developed a respiratory disease. I grew up in Arizona, and one of the "survival" techniques we learned was capturing the morning dew into jars using condensation. There's a LOT of water out there!

Even looking at almanacs online you can see fluctuations of humidity that average 50% to 100% in the mornings to 20% to 40% in the afternoon for the commonly kept Mediterranean species. All my reptiles, even the desert species, get a misting of warm water in the morning.

 

[Tom]

If the inside of Dudley's shed, after a week of not cleaning it out, is any clue to what a burrow looks like, those burrows would be plenty humid, what with all the poop and pee they deposit in there over time.

I've made this same observation in my tortoise boxes after a night of sulcata or leopard pooping. I'll clean the box and put in dry dirt in the afternoon, and humidity will be very low. The next morning the box is full of pee and poo and humidity is 80-90% even with an electric heater running periodically through the night.

 

[Tom]

One thing I noticed about this video is that the probe on his meter was only a few inches long. At one point he says he excavated a little further into the burrow, but he's still only a few inches from the entrance of the burrow. I wonder how humid it is deeper down into the burrow where the lizard, or tortoise for the sake of our discussion, would be hanging out.

Temperature where he was measuring was still 104-105. Surely it would be cooler deeper in.

 

[VegasJeff]

I think @Tom is spot on for this one. I never knew about microclimates until I started learning more about tortoises on the forum and bought a temperature gun. If you use a termperature gun on your porch, you can see a big difference between the temperature in the sun and the shade. And of course, you know this, because you can feel it to. Same concept applies to humidity.

In the room I am currently in, I got a digital thermometer sitting on top of the substrate in my turtle's cage and it reports 60% humidity right now. Across the room, where I sit, I have another digital thermometer and it reports 25% humidity which sounds about right for the desert here. 2 microclimates in the same room right there.

 

[LasTortugasNinja]

I think @Tom is spot on for this one. I never knew about microclimates until I started learning more about tortoises on the forum and bought a temperature gun. If you use a termperature gun on your porch, you can see a big difference between the temperature in the sun and the shade. And of course, you know this, because you can feel it to. Same concept applies to humidity.

In the room I am currently in, I got a digital thermometer sitting on top of the substrate in my turtle's cage and it reports 60% humidity right now. Across the room, where I sit, I have another digital thermometer and it reports 25% humidity which sounds about right for the desert here. 2 microclimates in the same room right there.

Yup. I have 3 different reptiles with several different microclimates. I never thought it was that shocking about humidity, but I always looked at it as common sense, since every book, site, and forum says to recreate the natural habitat as much as possible. Now that I think about it, I don't remember any book ever saying to raise humidity in the morning, and let it drop in the afternoons. I think I just assumed it.

 

[Myakoda]

A subject of much debate that comes up when I discuss my humid and hydrated method for raising babies and preventing pyramiding is that its not the humid in the wild where our tortoises come from. I counter that it is not that humid 2 meters above the ground out in the open where the weather meters are, but that it IS that humid down where the tortoises are hiding in little burrows and plant root balls.

Here is a little bit of evidence to support my argument. This video is about lizards, but there are measurements taken and the data is on display for anyone who cares to see it. Fast forward to 4:40 if you don't want to see the rest of it.

I'd love to hear thoughts on this.

I thank Tom for his years of research, he takes the time to share and help us.. Myakoda, my 8 month old Sulcata is thriving in her more humid enviroment. She is a happy, hydrated Tortoise. She's basking here, after napping in her humid hide.

 

[Myakoda]

Yep, that all makes sense to me here in Maryland. Almost common sense really. On a baking hot day here the surface area is really hot and dry, but right at ground level and in burrows....ground is humid & moist.

Now, can we talk about all those FLIES all over that guy! Yikes...flies Flies FLIES! At least they didnt appear to be biting flies.

PS - thanks for posting this video @Tom - very interesting & informative & entertaining.

I was noticing all the flies too lol.

 

[wellington]

A subject of much debate that comes up when I discuss my humid and hydrated method for raising babies and preventing pyramiding is that its not the humid in the wild where our tortoises come from. I counter that it is not that humid 2 meters above the ground out in the open where the weather meters are, but that it IS that humid down where the tortoises are hiding in little burrows and plant root balls.

Here is a little bit of evidence to support my argument. This video is about lizards, but there are measurements taken and the data is on display for anyone who cares to see it. Fast forward to 4:40 if you don't want to see the rest of it.

I'd love to hear thoughts on this.

I'm not surprised its humid but I'm surprised it's that humid and with the temp still remaining almost as high as the outside. Love that you found this.

 

[Viola B]

This is very good information. So glad you shared it with us all.

 

[Myakoda]

One thing I noticed about this video is that the probe on his meter was only a few inches long. At one point he says he excavated a little further into the burrow, but he's still only a few inches from the entrance of the burrow. I wonder how humid it is deeper down into the burrow where the lizard, or tortoise for the sake of our discussion, would be hanging out.

Temperature where he was measuring was still 104-105. Surely it would be cooler deeper in.

Hi Tom, I left a message somwhere on here about Mya's new humidifier. I know, I get lost on here sometimes! We ordered her a Lizard humidifier, the regular one on the table in her nursery wasn't working that great. It was about 75 in her enclosure. This came with a tube, which you hang down into her enclosure. It is a soft humid mist. I hope this isn't harmful, or to much, I don't know, it's the best idea I've had for high humidity for her for now. We will get her the enclosure you have for yours, just unable to at this time. I've tried dowloading the video, I'm not having any luck! I will do that as soon as this issue resolves. I just hope it's ok for the fog going into her enclosure, without giving her a resp infection. It's been here all day on Saturday. She seems to like it.

 

[Myakoda]

https://video-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t42.27313-2/97965161_1158419367844624_7780300430268956672_n.mp4?_nc_cat=110&vs=5eda80c6b419db24&_nc_vs=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&_nc_sid=a6057a&efg=eyJ2ZW5jb2RlX3RhZyI6Im9lcF9oZCJ9&_nc_ohc=6jLen1A1rCEAX86tTfT&_nc_ht=video-lax3-1.xx&oh=d3ae02a8b7b640166cedcf43e630274e&oe=5EC12133&_nc_rid=f3235c8813444d8&dl=1

This is the only way I could download this video, gawd!! Lol. It shows her eating a leaf she dragged over by her water, and the humidifier mist/fog. Finally. Took me an hour. Thanks Tom, I hope you see my above comment and this. Also, anyone else as well. Trying to get this humidity 80++

 

[Toddrickfl1]

I think this is good evidence against microclimates for Hatchlings too. If 99.9% of the time they are found in the same humid locations in the wild, why create the microclimates they avoid? It makes more sense to create their whole enclosure like the microclimate they seek out.