Illogical Laws!!!

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Moozillion

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Boy, am I glad that people here mention the turtle/tortoise laws in their respective states. I found out today that here in Louisiana, it is ILLEGAL to purchase, trade or barter for ANY North American box turtle! Makes no difference if it's captive bred, not native to our area or purchased elsewhere and shipped in. Any OTHER turtle (with a few exceptions) is OK. It IS LEGAL, however, for me to take a box turtle from the wild and keep it as a pet (which I won't do) or someone can GIVE me one. ANY foreign turtle or tort is fine as long as it was imported legally- I can have as many as I want. (!!!!!) Although this affects my current turtle-acquiring plan, I'd rather know BEFORE I buy than after.
 

EKLC

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I would imagine it's a brute force approach to remove any monetary incentive to harvest them. You can imagine if they were quick cash for people they'd be pretty much gone from the wild.
 

Edna

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Another perspective on some of our wildlife laws is the potential for captives to escape and establish feral populations, which can then pressure or displace native populations. The feral potential depends on what climate you are in; species that could never survive a winter here in WY might do very well in LA.
 

GBtortoises

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"A 3-year study in Texas indicated that over 7,000 box turtles were taken from the wild for commercial trade. A similar study in Louisiana found that in a 41-month period, nearly 30,000 box turtles were taken from the wild for resale."

From Wikipedia.

Many (most) states that Box turtles are native too have laws on the collection and ownership of them as well as many other species for exactly the reason stated above.
I am not, by any stretch, a fan of government at any level telling us what we can and can't do or how to live. But it does appear that in some cases "we the people" cannot resist the lure of easy money at the expense of some of our precious resources.

Here in New York State, every single species of native wildlife is protected at one level or another and requires a permit to possess them regardless of their source (captive born, purchased legally, etc). It is illegal to remove from, hold in captivity or collect for any purpose, native species from the wilds of New York State. A few exceptions are made for bonafide research facilities with permits. Individuals can possess species that are native to New York State with the correct NYS DEC wildlife permits that have not been collected within the state. But proof of legal sale/purchase/ownership is required in order to get the permits.

I think that is or is becoming very common in more and more states each year.
 

StudentoftheReptile

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Here in Alabama, you are allowed to possess one box turtle. No commercial collecting, selling or trading allowed. Basically, the "one-turtle per household" rule just allows for kids to keep a turtle if they find one.

Alligator snappers are, of course, illegal, as are gopher tortoises.

We have a handful of indigenous map turtles, a couple musk turtles and the Alabama red-bellied turtle which are state-protected as well. Beyond that, everything else is kinda fair game as long as you have a turtle farmer's/collector's permit.
 

Tortus

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Interesting. I'll have to check the laws in Maryland.

I know of a back road that's literally crawling with box turtles during summer months. Bright orange and black, some a little yellow. I guess they go onto the road to get some sun. I thought about keeping one, but I usually just move them off the road so they don't get run over. The most I counted during one trip down the road was 11.
 

Madkins007

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Tortus said:
Interesting. I'll have to check the laws in Maryland.

I know of a back road that's literally crawling with box turtles during summer months. Bright orange and black, some a little yellow. I guess they go onto the road to get some sun. I thought about keeping one, but I usually just move them off the road so they don't get run over. The most I counted during one trip down the road was 11.

These sorts of laws are in place so our kids and their kids can see things like that. There are LOTS of species that we said there were so many of that we could certainly hunt them, and now they are gone. Passenger pigeon flocks were miles long, and it did not take us long to wipe them out.

Illicit trade in box turtles is not massively profitable, but it is an easy buck. There is something similar about salamanders in many mid-southern states, and so on.

I hate to say it, but given a choice between a harsh, widespread ban and the likelihood that the species will be overcollected in more places than it already has been- I choose the ban.
 

Tortus

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I agree, madkins. I've lived on the eastern shore of MD most of my life, in the country, and we see box turtles all the time. When I was a kid I found one the size of a 50 cent piece in the garden and kept it for a couple days before my dad convinced me it wasn't right to take them from the wild.

It is tempting since the ones we have are so attractive, but I couldn't bring myself to do it. I don't think they're endangered around here yet but I would also advocate a ban on keeping them. And I refuse to tell anyone where that road is just in case they get any ideas. I'm not sure if it's legal or not, but I have seen our local box turtles for sale at a small pet shop not far from here for $50 each.

I haven't been to that shop in over a year since I don't like the owners. It has been bugging me though since the ones they had for sale are about the same size as the ones you'd spot on the road. They probably picked them up and put them in their tanks with a price tag.
 

redfoot7

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Eastern box turtles are strictly prohibited here in PA. The other subspecies are legal as far as I know. But this is one of the few government control laws I'm in favor of. They are taking such a beating around here with this Marcellus shale gas boom and the gas lines and roads going in everywhere. I think one thing that really saves our native box turtles from being more illegally harvested nation wide, is that in all reality they make pretty lousy pets. Unless being kept outside in their native environment, or close to it, they don't do very well. They aren't nearly as forgiving of a less then perfect environment as say a russian or a redfoot. If they were I think it'd be a much bigger issue.
 

feline8

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Tortus said:
Interesting. I'll have to check the laws in Maryland.

I know of a back road that's literally crawling with box turtles during summer months. Bright orange and black, some a little yellow. I guess they go onto the road to get some sun. I thought about keeping one, but I usually just move them off the road so they don't get run over. The most I counted during one trip down the road was 11.

Cool! What road in MD? I live in Maryland too but I've never seen a box turtle in person, other than once in the zoo. Do you think they are wild or escaped pets?

I think the people who make and enforce these laws don't know enough about tortoises or turtles, but just know the basic facts about their habitat and population. Not many people own tortoises/turtles, let alone know how to take care of one. I cant imagine a senator with a bunch of tortoises in his nicely cut lawn either.

Anybody from this forum interested in running for a policymaking position? I believe people w/ more knowledge on the animal should be formulating the laws, instead of a politician making laws based on brief numbered facts.
 

dmmj

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Bans are good because they work so well (sarcasm deployed) drugs, prostitution, all banned and of course no one does any of that.
Most laws are illogical IMHO.
 

Tortus

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feline8 said:
Cool! What road in MD? I live in Maryland too but I've never seen a box turtle in person, other than once in the zoo. Do you think they are wild or escaped pets?




Hey neighbor!

No, they're wild eastern box turtles. I live in the country on the eastern shore and I've seen them all my life. The colors vary, but most around here are very vibrant. The red eyes on the males are freaky.

I won't say where the road is in case someone wants to poach them. I'll just say it's a 2-3 mile long road through the woods that connects two busier roads. There's a nature trail about half way down that I've gone through a couple times but never saw a turtle. They're impossible to spot in the woods. On the road, easy.

Even though the road isn't heavily traveled, I have seen smashed ones. Some still alive. I know box turtles can regenerate their shells if not too badly damamged so I just put them by the woods and let nature take its course.
 
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