Indian Star Routine

[Jess_star]

Hello everyone! I'm Jess, new to the forum (this is my second post after my intro post) and am picking up my first tortoise, an Indian Star baby, on the 30th of this month. Pictures below is all I have of him so far! I'm fairly new to the forum but have been reading as much as I can, trying to work out the best set up and make sure I have everything ready for when I bring him home.

I'm going for a 3ft viv set up, as I know it's better for humidity for them. Having found a few of the posts on here already to be invaluable, I'm looking forward to reading around more and learning as much as I can. I've been reading about online but there seems to be so much conflicting information out there.

One of the things that interests me most though is what are people's tortoise routines? I'm a planner by nature so am trying to get a routine worked out before he arrives so I'm fully prepared and know exactly what needs doing and how often. I know it's going to be a lot of work but I just want to make sure I'm doing everything I can to help him live a long, happy and healthy life.

Also any general tips for beginners that people think will be helpful please throw your 2 cents in! [emoji4][emoji217]

 

[Jess_star]

I've been over to where I'm buying him from today to sort some details and got a picture of his current set up. It's going to be a drastic change for him when I bring him home. The massive change in environment couldn't have a negative effect on him could it?

 

[Yvonne G]

Here's what USUALLY happens. You get him home and he has a voracious appetite and wanders all over the new enclosure. The next day he stays hidden all day, and for the next week or more. I have no idea why they're ok the first day, but tortoises don't like change. Give him a week or so to acclimate.

 

[Tom]

Hi Jess. I wouldn't buy that tortoise. Its been cared for incorrectly, and if there is kidney damage it cannot be undone or detected. How often do they soak it? When they are kept overly dry like that, and not soaked often enough, it can damage their kidneys. You'll then bring the baby home, do everything right, soak it daily, feed it well and all will seem fine for a few weeks or months, but the baby doesn't grow. Then it begins to decline, gets less active, eats less and eventually dies. The pet store will say it was fine while they had it and since it died months later, they will blame you for not caring for it correctly, not knowing that it was entirely their fault for keeping the baby too dry and dehydrated.

Read this: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/hatchling-failure-syndrome.23493/

This one will explain how they should be started: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-incubate-eggs-and-start-hatchlings.124266/

Some of them survive and some of them don't when they are started dry like that. I just wanted you to be forewarned, so you can decide if you want to take that risk or look for a better breeder/seller that understands the concept of hydration and humidity for babies that hatch in a monsoon season in their native range. The "dry" season over their still has humidity from 60-80%.

 

[Jess_star]

Hi Jess. I wouldn't buy that tortoise. Its been cared for incorrectly, and if there is kidney damage it cannot be undone or detected. How often do they soak it? When they are kept overly dry like that, and not soaked often enough, it can damage their kidneys. You'll then bring the baby home, do everything right, soak it daily, feed it well and all will seem fine for a few weeks or months, but the baby doesn't grow. Then it begins to decline, gets less active, eats less and eventually dies. The pet store will say it was fine while they had it and since it died months later, they will blame you for not caring for it correctly, not knowing that it was entirely their fault for keeping the baby too dry and dehydrated.

Read this: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/hatchling-failure-syndrome.23493/

This one will explain how they should be started: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-incubate-eggs-and-start-hatchlings.124266/

Some of them survive and some of them don't when they are started dry like that. I just wanted you to be forewarned, so you can decide if you want to take that risk or look for a better breeder/seller that understands the concept of hydration and humidity for babies that hatch in a monsoon season in their native range. The "dry" season over their still has humidity from 60-80%.

Hello Tom, thank you so much for all the information. I had no idea about any of what you've said and referred me too, so they have been eye-opening. It's given me something to think about and is making me reconsider.

Either way thank you so much for the information and if I do decide to risk it and get him still, at least you've forewarned me and I'll know the signs to look out for and if this does affect him.

 

[Tom]

Hello Tom, thank you so much for all the information. I had no idea about any of what you've said and referred me too, so they have been eye-opening. It's given me something to think about and is making me reconsider.

Either way thank you so much for the information and if I do decide to risk it and get him still, at least you've forewarned me and I'll know the signs to look out for and if this does affect him.

You are welcome. Please feel free to question any of this. Ask lots of questions. I'm happy to explain and don't expect anyone to believe this stuff just because some guy on the internet typed it. Pet stores have a dismal record and they usually don't understand tortoise care or what products are needed.

I always want people to have a positive tortoise experience.

 

[tortoiseplanet]

You are welcome. Please feel free to question any of this. Ask lots of questions. I'm happy to explain and don't expect anyone to believe this stuff just because some guy on the internet typed it. Pet stores have a dismal record and they usually don't understand tortoise care or what products are needed.

I always want people to have a positive tortoise experience.

You’re definitely right, pet stores are very unknowledgeable about tortoises. When I got my first Russian Tortoise, the employee was telling me how to take care of him telling me to put him in a 10 gallon tank then moving him outside when he gets larger. He also explained to me that russian tortoises can reach up to 400lbs lol.

 

[Jess_star]

I spoke more to the guy at the store yesterday through messenger. He said the below, which is in itself true. I've found so much conflicting information when researching stuff, one of the reasons I'm so glad I found this forum. It's a small, independent shop, when I first went in and was considering which to purchase, he was the one that recommended a viv for the Indian star over a table. At the time I thought tables were better all round but now finding that they don't suit all breeds.

I hardly slept last night thinking about it, I've decided still to go ahead with him. Hopefully he won't have the problems that Tom mentioned but if he does I know the signs to look out for and I'll know the reason behind it. Even if he is ill, at least I can give him as good a life as I can while he's here.

 

[Markw84]

I spoke more to the guy at the store yesterday through messenger. He said the below, which is in itself true. I've found so much conflicting information when researching stuff, one of the reasons I'm so glad I found this forum. It's a small, independent shop, when I first went in and was considering which to purchase, he was the one that recommended a viv for the Indian star over a table. At the time I thought tables were better all round but now finding that they don't suit all breeds.

I hardly slept last night thinking about it, I've decided still to go ahead with him. Hopefully he won't have the problems that Tom mentioned but if he does I know the signs to look out for and I'll know the reason behind it. Even if he is ill, at least I can give him as good a life as I can while he's here.View attachment 225502

I would still have concerns as the reply you received still said nothing of what the store owner is actually doing, and believing to be the appropriate care. It is so helpful to know how a tortoise has been kept to give you an indication of what type condition it probably is. Looking at the enclosure he has chosen to set the Star up in, it is not one based on an understanding of the need for humidity. Has he been able to raise his leopard tortoises without pyramiding? Looking at the "natural habitat" is what normally leads to very incorrect assumptions. He states it is confusing to find good information, but he never says what he then has decided to use. That is what you need to know to help your decision. Ask - "How has this young tortoise been kept?"

Soaked daily? or at all?
fresh water available daily?
Diet?
Humidity?
Temperatures maintained? Nighttime low?
We can see the substrate is not a good choice.

He says he is so careful to talk with the people he gets tortoises from. So what was he told about this one? In reference to the above questions? If he is "so careful" - that is a great sign, and he will know these answers.

 

[Jess_star]

I've rethought things, been looking more into the information that Tom talked about. I did speak to the guy about the humidity and he said the following (included in the picture below).

I'm heartbroken but I've decided against this particular tortoise. It would be my first one anyway and the more I've looked into it, the more I'm realising that it's definitely not a tortoise for beginners. Plus with all the possible side effects of how it's been kept, I'd be absolutely devastated if it did become ill and I lost it.

It's been a really tough decision for me but I think this is for the best. I'm going to do a lot more research and look into the breeders around my area and then make sure I get he best tortoise for me to start off with. I will be a tortoise mum eventually and would love to have loads of different types, I'll just have to wait a little longer.

 

[Cheryl Hills]

Check out our for sale section or breeders list. I am sure you can find a suitable tort there and I believe our breeders on the forum, know how to raise babies. You can also get one that you know the age of and the way they are raised. Much easier! Good luck!

 

[Tom]

I've rethought things, been looking more into the information that Tom talked about. I did speak to the guy about the humidity and he said the following (included in the picture below).

I'm heartbroken but I've decided against this particular tortoise. It would be my first one anyway and the more I've looked into it, the more I'm realising that it's definitely not a tortoise for beginners. Plus with all the possible side effects of how it's been kept, I'd be absolutely devastated if it did become ill and I lost it.

It's been a really tough decision for me but I think this is for the best. I'm going to do a lot more research and look into the breeders around my area and then make sure I get he best tortoise for me to start off with. I will be a tortoise mum eventually and would love to have loads of different types, I'll just have to wait a little longer.

I'm sure it was a tough decision, but I think you've chosen wisely.

The guy doesn't sell hygrometers because it makes people "focus on it too much". I don't focus on my hygrometers. I just give them a quick glance so that I know what adjustments to make, if any. And having a water bowl is not going to make a heated vivarium go from 35% to 60% humidity. Not unless the water bowl takes up 70% of the floor space. Further, his guesstimate fails to take into account the heat lamp, UV tube and CHE that will all contribute to dropping that 35-45% humidity even lower. Far lower. Even further still, I have no idea what the humidity is in the average English home, but over here it is much lower than 35% in winter when everybody has their heaters running. This sort of thing is precisely what we mean when we talk about pet stores not understanding proper tortoise care.

Another thing this guy (Who seems like a really nice guy…) doesn't understand is that most of the breeders don't know this stuff either. We were all taught the same wrong info 30 years ago, and some people still haven't figured out it was wrong. Most people seem to think that tortoises come from "dry" or "desert" regions, and most of them don't. The ones that do, like our California desert tortoises, live underground where its not so dry. The "dry" season in India, where G. elegans comes from, has humidity from 60-80 percent most of the time. The wet season, when its raining all the time, has humidity typically ranging from 80-100%, so says the guy that keeps tortoises and lived in India for a couple of years.

The experience that you've just gone through is what we are all trying to put an end to here. It drives me crazy that there is so much ignorance and conflicting info being shared out there in the world. It makes it very difficult for the person who is trying to get started and do it right. So many people seem like credible sources of info, but they are still parroting the same old wrong stuff that I used to parrot too.

I'm glad you found our group here before it was too late. Now I wish you good luck in finding a UK breeder that understands the monsoon season concept and why dry all the time is NOT "natural" or healthy for baby tortoises of any species. Please feel free to invite the helpful pet store guy here to converse with us, and anyone else you come across that is still clinging to the old, out-dated, incorrect care advice of the past.

 

[Destben]

You’re definitely right, pet stores are very unknowledgeable about tortoises. When I got my first Russian Tortoise, the employee was telling me how to take care of him telling me to put him in a 10 gallon tank then moving him outside when he gets larger. He also explained to me that russian tortoises can reach up to 400lbs lol.

I got told the same thing lol [emoji23]. I knew it wasn’t right but I just nodded my head and kept listening.

 

[Tom]

I got told the same thing lol [emoji23]. I knew it wasn’t right but I just nodded my head and kept listening.

How do you guys do that? Keep listening politely when you know their whole spiel is all wrong? I do not possess that skill. I politely inform them of what they are wrong about, why, and then give them the correct info. I don't want them telling someone else who doesn't know what I know that wrong info.

 

[Destben]

How do you guys do that? Keep listening politely when you know their whole spiel is all wrong? I do not possess that skill. I politely inform them of what they are wrong about, why, and then give them the correct info. I don't want them telling someone else who doesn't know what I know that wrong info.

I did school a petco employee later in proper tort care. But that was before I had the knowledge I got from this forum. I was still way new to torts. Also It said right on the label the size they would really get to so I wasn’t to worried about it.

 

[Tom]

I did school a petco employee later in proper tort care. But that was before I had the knowledge I got from this forum. I was still way new to torts. Also It said right on the label the size they would really get to so I wasn’t to worried about it.

A 400 pound russian tortoise??? That would be cool. I'd name it Gamera and tell everyone it could fly and shoot this white electric flame stuff from its mouth!!!

 

[Destben]

A 400 pound russian tortoise??? That would be cool. I'd name it Gamera and tell everyone it could fly and shoot this white electric flame stuff from its mouth!!!

Right!