interesting article

[terryo]

Apparently I have " insufficient privileges" to post in the section for news articles, whatever that means. Anyway, saw this and thought it was interesting

http://news.cision.com/american-tor...ata-tortoises-overwhelm-u-s--rescues,c9649348

 

[wellington]

Oh, this is going to bring up some debating. Too bad some of it isn't true. Where is there sully hatchlings for sale for $1000.00. Also to say they shouldnt be in all 50 states. Maybe they should visit some that are in the colder states. It's true that everyone selling them should be honest about them, very sad how way too many people are so money hungry over the life and well being of a living thing. This will be an interesting thread to watch. Thanks for sharing and I have no idea why you couldn't post it under the other section. I don't know of any restrictions. I will make sure Josh knows about the problem.

 

[terryo]

Here in NY I know of a few rescues and each Summer they are loaded with Sulcata's. They are very strict about adopting them out.....only to a warm climate and a promise of no breeding. I know of a few pet stores here that call me if they get in a box turtle, that have a "back room" where they will have Sulcata hatchlings for $50. We have a 4 in. rule here, but it's still easy to get what you want. I really have no opinion on this, just wanted to share the article. I will say that I have a friend here in NY that raised one from a hatchling and it's now well over 100 lbs and smooth and beautiful and healthy. She has her own room when she comes in for the Winter months, so I guess with a lot of time, space, patience and care it can be done here in NY.

 

[Yvonne G]

Susan has been beating this same drum for over 10 years. I agree that there are an awful lot of discarded sulcatas and the rescues sometimes are inundated with them, but I think rather than calling for no breeding, education is the key. The folks who sell sulcata babies - I'm talking about Joe the Plumber who has a pair of sulcatas, knows nothing about them, and sells the babies on craigslist - need to be honest about how big and how destructive the tortoises get.

But then, even if you DO tell people about them and have them read the Sulcata Challenge, most people see that cute little hatchling and just plain don't believe you.

 

[Tom]

They are very strict about adopting them out.....

And here in lies the reason why some rescues end up with a bunch of them.

As I've stated many times before, when these tortoises become available at local shelters without any rescue imposing rules, contracts, inspections, etc..., they get adopted the day they are available every time. There are usually several people fighting for them.

While this article had the same story we keep hearing from the typical "rescue", at least it did also share some good and accurate info too.

 

[wellington]

See, I think that's the problem with some rescues. They only want to rehome to the warm states. If they did their home work on someone in the Northern states that wants to adopt one, they would be able to place a lot more. It is harder and more expensive to keep tortoises in the colder states, but it can be done.
I also think everyone that sells them should be honest about their size, how quickly they can get to that size and how destructive they can be.
What would help all tortoises, and animals period, is for it to be illegal for pet stores to sell them.

 

[ascott]

That tort in the pic is absolutely kissable....lol...that is all I am going to say....

 

[Alaskamike]

The breeding problem happens to many animals. Considering the great numbers of sully babies bred and sold every year in the US we should have 1000'ds of big Sulcatas available in every State for adoption. But this really is not the case.

It could be that many don't make it to adulthood. I don't know ( but suspect)

I do think that appropriate and up to date accurate care / info sheets should be supplied with EVERY pet sold - be it from a pet store or hobby breeder. The poor Sulcatas have suffered greatly from miss information for sure. It seems that only in the last 5 yrs or so has proper diet / water / humidity even been understood by the advanced keepers.

It would thrill me if some regulation on live animal sales would require the info sheets. And I'm one not much in favor of government control at all. But when it comes to animals compassion dictates this.

Banning breeding is NOT the answer. It would never work anyway. Just create an underground network of illegal activity.

 

[Tom]

It would thrill me if some regulation on live animal sales would require the info sheets. And I'm one not much in favor of government control at all. But when it comes to animals compassion dictates this.

Mike, Do you read the government mandated warnings that come on new mattresses, fridges, toasters, cell phones, child car seats, or any other product? I don't. Information on tortoise care is just a few key strokes and mouse clicks away for anyone in the world now. Big Brother's tortoise care sheet would likely be disregarded, don't you think?

I am all for educating the public and especially buyers, but involving the .gov in any way shape or form is usually not going to end well.

 

[Alaskamike]

Mike, Do you read the government mandated warnings that come on new mattresses, fridges, toasters, cell phones, child car seats, or any other product? I don't. Information on tortoise care is just a few key strokes and mouse clicks away for anyone in the world now. Big Brother's tortoise care sheet would likely be disregarded, don't you think?

I am all for educating the public and especially buyers, but involving the .gov in any way shape or form is usually not going to end well.

You're probably right Tom. I guess some of this is wishful thinking on my part.

 

[terryo]

The reason that most rescue's here in the North require that these tortoises have to go to a home in a warmer climate is that all the rescues they take in are from Northern states where the Winter's are bad, and they reach a size that people realize they don't have the room to keep them inside any more. Also all that come in are so mal shaped and sick that it takes money and time for them to reach a stage where they can be adopted out. I've been to some rescues and have seen what they look like when they come in. When I was re homing my Cherry Head I would only consider a home in a warmer climate, so I can understand. My friend who raised the Sulcata has a large home with plenty of yard for the Summer but if you go to her house in the Winter....well, you can imagine. Not saying it can't be done, but it isn't easy.

 

[Tom]

The reason that most rescue's here in the North require that these tortoises have to go to a home in a warmer climate is that all the rescues they take in are from Northern states where the Winter's are bad, and they reach a size that people realize they don't have the room to keep them inside any more. Also all that come in are so mal shaped and sick that it takes money and time for them to reach a stage where they can be adopted out. I've been to some rescues and have seen what they look like when they come in. When I was re homing my Cherry Head I would only consider a home in a warmer climate, so I can understand. My friend who raised the Sulcata has a large home with plenty of yard for the Summer but if you go to her house in the Winter....well, you can imagine. Not saying it can't be done, but it isn't easy.

I agree with and understand everything you've said here Terry. My only goal here, on this topic, is to explain the reasons why some rescues have the perception that they do. Its not that there is a shortage of good homes or a huge overpopulationof sulcatas, its that people would prefer not to deal with the contracts, yard inspections, rehoming fees, etc., that some rescues insist upon. And I'm not saying these rescues are wrong in any way for being careful about who these tortoises go to, I'm just saying there are easier, cheaper ways to get a sulcata when someone wants one.

If one of those Northern rescues drove to the local dog pound in my area and dropped of 30 sulcatas, they would all be adopted within days. Would every adopter fit the perfect mold that exists in the rescuers mind? Probably not, but they'd all be adopted, and I would hope their new owners would try to give them optimal care. I would tend to make the assumption that the new caretakers would want their new pets to live and thrive vs. the assumption that they will leave them uncared for to die. Why go get it if you don't want it and want it to live and be healthy?

 

[terryo]

I understand exactly what you are saying Tom. The Sulcata issue here in NY is similar to the "Easter Bunny" problem when Sept. rolls around and all the kids go back to school and the Mom's who bought them their Easter Bunnies don't want to bother with them any more. So sad to see how many come in around September.

 

[Yellow Turtle01]

Susan has been beating this same drum for over 10 years. I agree that there are an awful lot of discarded sulcatas and the rescues sometimes are inundated with them, but I think rather than calling for no breeding, education is the key. The folks who sell sulcata babies - I'm talking about Joe the Plumber who has a pair of sulcatas, knows nothing about them, and sells the babies on craigslist - need to be honest about how big and how destructive the tortoises get.

But then, even if you DO tell people about them and have them read the Sulcata Challenge, most people see that cute little hatchling and just plain don't believe you.

I read the sulcata challenge, LOL! It really helped me decide whether I wanted to make the commitment...

 

[Yellow Turtle01]

I understand this has been going on for a bit, but I've got to mention a few things before it becomes dead.
terryo, the article is great, but I do NOT agree with everything it says. I live in Ohio, and I have lots of faith in the fact that this winter Cheerio won't get 'crippling MDB.' IMHO, even though the 'freezing' wild here may be 'freezing', sulcata's can live comfortably here year round... Obviously, it'd be way better to live in a warm, hot and humid climate all year round, but here it can work very simply!
Female's may lay eggs, but who needs to hatch them?? And I mean, if they don't even LIVE WITH ANOTHER TORTOISE (raises hand) it wouldn't even be an 'issue'! And I agree, 1000$? Please. Not even the specially colored babies will go for that much. And not all sulcata's are 'aggressive'. That's really overselling it.
Okay, might begin treading on toes here, but I sincerely hope most breeders here have the common sense to turn their backs 'on an obvious money making machine'! I understand that right now, and in the future, past-pet adult sulcata's are an issue. Yes. Many owners are uneducated for what they have signed up for, and that's really what it boils down to! But hey, some people ARE educated, and are perfectly aware that this animal is a LIFETIME COMMITMENT. No backsies. Yes, and there are many people who rescue too (raises hand!) and the breeding won't stop just because people don't want to sell them... and those uneducated people who get a little baby will always buy them. Illegality won't help, they'll become more desirable. And truthfully, I've been to many petstores, and I've never seen any tortoise for sell besides russians. Not saying it doesn't happen, but it must not very common. I just, think that the author decided to pinpoint every little thing that highlights sulcata's as aggressive, destructive, jerks that should all die in shelters, because of all the uneducated owners... That's really the problem.