Is he sick or grumpy?

[timmy_tortoise]

Thanks for getting back to us! There are some things of note I hope you don’t mind me mentioning, I hate for you to run into problems!

First up sizing, for an adult this is far to small a space to spend any significant amount of time in unfortunately, this can eventually come with its own health issues if he doesn’t have enough roaming room.

For substrate, hemp will mould when maintaining any kind of humidity, I’d also strongly suggest removing the hay, you don’t want him accidentally eating long dry strands like that, they aren’t grass eaters, the hay will also mould when you maintain humidity.

The bulb does definitely need changing when you’re able, those all in one uv bulbs aren’t the safest or most efficient option unfortunately.

I think you’ll find this housing thread I made useful! it covers correct equipment(lighting, heating, uv), levels, sizing, appropriately maintaining humidity, substrates, there’s lots of visual examples for everything and a really handy diet link to check out!

Housing adult Russian and Hermans indoors

Hello there! In this thread I’m going to include some information an example of an appropriate indoor set up for an older Herman/russian. As much as it’s encouraged to have tortoises in a safe outdoor enclosure, I understand being from the uk myself, that some climates make it difficult to...

tortoiseforum.org

This one includes some indoor adult set ups

Enclosure inspiration

Howdy folks! Hope everyone is well! As you all know, I’m a big fan of making threads that cater more towards visual learners like myself, I’ve really been wanting to create a thread full of adult enclosure inspiration for a while now, I’ve managed to find some great references over time! I do...

tortoiseforum.org

Lastly, this one is also really good to familiarise yourself with, it’ll help you avoid the wrong bulbs, substrates, housing etc, I always encourage double checking purchases on the forum too before buying

Common keeping errors

Hello everyone! I’d been a long time lurker on this site long before joining just under a year ago now, over that time I’ve seen these husbandry issues come up time and time again, sometimes with dire consequences☹️ I thought this thread might serve as a good visual guide for these common...

tortoiseforum.org

I hope they help! Give them all a read and please come back with any further questions!

Thanks for all of your help! Just to clarify, the hay is actually edible hay but I'll definitely check everything else out!

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Thanks for your help! Will it hurt him

if I grip his head too hard?

It will be painful at least.

Often it's better when vet shows you how to do beak trim for the first time. As wellington said, skewer trick can be easier for a non-experienced keeper.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Thanks for all of your help! Just to clarify, the hay is actually edible hay but I'll definitely check everything else out!

I know but these guys aren’t grass eaters so long dry pieces like this can be hard for them to digest.
No problem at all!

 

[COmtnLady]

How often does he get a soak? AT least a half hour in nice warm water an inch or so deep, replaced frequently so that it stays warm the whole time.

He's pyramiding, it won't go away, but if you can stop it now it shouldn't get worse.

Get rid of all the "grass"-related substrate and hay. If the enclosure is dry enough that it isn't going moldy, the enclosure is wrong. If it is going moldy it means your humidity is good but the moldy vegetable matter is bad. Either way the chopped bedding and hay are bad and need to go.
To say its "edible hay" for a sub-species that doesn't eat grass would be like me setting a plate of hay in front of you for dinner. Theoretically you could eat it, but is it actually your kind of food?

The entire top of the enclosure should have plastic, a tent, or similar impervious covering over its top to keep the heat and humidity in. Its best if its above the lights so that they are inside it, since UVB is notorious for not getting through glass or plastic.


How are you taking care of your Tort if you are away at Uni?

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

How are you taking care of your Tort if you are away at Uni?

I think he told that his parents are taking care of the tortoise most of the time.

 

[timmy_tortoise]

How often does he get a soak? AT least a half hour in nice warm water an inch or so deep, replaced frequently so that it stays warm the whole time.

He's pyramiding, it won't go away, but if you can stop it now it shouldn't get worse.

Get rid of all the "grass"-related substrate and hay. If the enclosure is dry enough that it isn't going moldy, the enclosure is wrong. If it is going moldy it means your humidity is good but the moldy vegetable matter is bad. Either way the chopped bedding and hay are bad and need to go.
To say its "edible hay" for a sub-species that doesn't eat grass would be like me setting a plate of hay in front of you for dinner. Theoretically you could eat it, but is it actually your kind of food?

The entire top of the enclosure should have plastic, a tent, or similar impervious covering over its top to keep the heat and humidity in. Its best if its above the lights so that they are inside it, since UVB is notorious for not getting through glass or plastic.


How are you taking care of your Tort if you are away at Uni?

Hi, thanks for your response. When I'm at home I soak him once I week. I know that my family does it less (they take care of him when I'm not there), but I'm not sure how much less.

I'm aware of the pyramiding, we got him when I was a child and he was over fed as a baby (I tried to tell my family but they unfortunately didn't listen because I was a child).

That's an interesting point about the hay, thanks. It's sold as edible for tortoises so I assumed that it meant he could eat it, but I'll remove it if this isn't the case.

Also a good point about the plastic, but surely it's a hazard to keep plastic so close to a lamp that hot?

 

[COmtnLady]

The soaking helps with hydration and bowel movements. For optimal health it should be done a lot more frequently than you currently are doing... every day to every-other-day until the tortoise is an adult, then could be less, but is fine to continue to soak more often. Mine is about 8 or 9 years old and I soak her every-other-day. Younger tortoises need more often.

As to plastic :
The logistics aren't that difficult to figure out. You just don't let the moisture barrier touch the lamps; make a frame for the plastic that is taller and/or wider so it doesn't become a fire hazard - and be sure to secure the lamps with more than the clip they come with, so that it can't accidentally fall/move.

Also, for the first few days of covering the enclosure, double check the temps and humidity. Going from open to covered contains them, so it will become warmer than it has been and have a higher percentage of moisture because its not floating away into the room. You will need to make a lot of adjustments until the "new normal" becomes what's best for your tortoise.

Feeding has little-to-nothing-to-do with pyramiding. It comes from too much heat on the shell and too little humidity, desiccation. The shell gets too dry and hot and it causes problems with the growth patterns. If you control it soon it won't cause health problems in the long run.


.


.

 

[timmy_tortoise]

Thab

The soaking helps with hydration and bowel movements. For optimal health it should be done a lot more frequently than you currently are doing... every day to every-other-day until the tortoise is an adult, then could be less, but is fine to continue to soak more often. Mine is about 8 or 9 years old and I soak her every-other-day. Younger tortoises need more often.

As to plastic :
The logistics aren't that difficult to figure out. You just don't let the moisture barrier touch the lamps; make a frame for the plastic that is taller and/or wider so it doesn't become a fire hazard - and be sure to secure the lamps with more than the clip they come with, so that it can't accidentally fall/move.

Also, for the first few days of covering the enclosure, double check the temps and humidity. Going from open to covered contains them, so it will become warmer than it has been and have a higher percentage of moisture because its not floating away into the room. You will need to make a lot of adjustments until the "new normal" becomes what's best for your tortoise.

Feeding has little-to-nothing-to-do with pyramiding. It comes from too much heat on the shell and too little humidity, desiccation. The shell gets too dry and hot and it causes problems with the growth patterns. If you control it soon it won't cause health problems in the long run.


.


.

thanks for your help! Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear- he's actually 8 years old. The shop I got him from told us to soak him only once a week even when he was a baby... they also told us that pyramiding was caused by overeating. The shop has since closed down so I can't go back to check with them unfortunately.

In regards to the plastic, we do have cats so I'd be concerned about them jumping on the plastic and causing it to touch the lamp. Is there another way to do it without making a tent? Thanks!

 

[COmtnLady]

Here, The Tortoise Forum, has the most up-to-date info, with lots of very experienced tortoise keepers to help you out.

Most pet shops, vets, social media sites, and people at animal fairs are holding on to old info that doesn't have the best outcomes for optimally healthy tortoises. A lot of pet shops will lead you to believe that a 20 gallon aquarium and few pieces of lettuce are all a tort needs. They tout torts as being low work pets, and the tortoises suffer for it.

Have you had a chance to read these yet? They'll help you a LOT and you can re-read at your leisure as needed.

Common keeping errors

Hello everyone! I’d been a long time lurker on this site long before joining just under a year ago now, over that time I’ve seen these husbandry issues come up time and time again, sometimes with dire consequences☹️ I thought this thread might serve as a good visual guide for these common...

tortoiseforum.org

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[timmy_tortoise]

Here, The Tortoise Forum, has the most up-to-date info, with lots of very experienced tortoise keepers to help you out.

Most pet shops, vets, social media sites, and people at animal fairs are holding on to old info that doesn't have the best outcomes for optimally healthy tortoises. A lot of pet shops will lead you to believe that a 20 gallon aquarium and few pieces of lettuce are all a tort needs. They tout torts as being low work pets, and the tortoises suffer for it.

Have you had a chance to read these yet? They'll help you a LOT and you can re-read at your leisure as needed.

Common keeping errors

Hello everyone! I’d been a long time lurker on this site long before joining just under a year ago now, over that time I’ve seen these husbandry issues come up time and time again, sometimes with dire consequences☹️ I thought this thread might serve as a good visual guide for these common...

tortoiseforum.org

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

Thanks for your help! Yep, that's why I'm here I suspected that maybe I wasn't given all the correct info when I first got him. Do you think that could be related to why he seems to be sulking at the moment? He did the same thing last year but then perked up so I'm not sure.
I plan to read them this weekend! Honestly the biggest challenge is going to be convincing my family at home that he needs a bigger enclosure. We live in a very small house so we don't really have a lot of room, but I know it's important so I'll do my best to convince them

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Do you think that could be related to why he seems to be sulking at the moment?

I think is a combinationg of things, including the fact that winter is approaching.

Honestly the biggest challenge is going to be convincing my family at home that he needs a bigger enclosure. We live in a very small house so we don't really have a lot of room, but I know it's important so I'll do my best to convince them

I think @Alex and the Redfoot has complied a list of points on why a tortoise needs to roam for non-tortoise people. Do you still have it?

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

I think is a combinationg of things, including the fact that winter is approaching.

I think @Alex and the Redfoot has complied a list of points on why a tortoise needs to roam for non-tortoise people. Do you still have it?

I don't have a "canned response" for that, it was like that last time:
Tortoises need more space because:
1. They aren't great climbers and cannot use vertical space for exercise like lizards do.
2. Their body is not flexible, they need space for maneuvers - imagine a school bus on a narrow street trying to turn around.
3. In the wild they don't sit on a branch awaiting for food to crawl or fly nearby - they walk and forage.
4. Their physiology has adapted to such lifestyle - walking helps to move food through intestines. This is similar to horses, as I understand - when kept in stalls only they get sick.
5. Depending on species and conditions, they can cover distances measured in miles daily.
6. As any reptile they use environment to thermoregulate and take advantage of available microclimates. Small enclosure doesn't allow to create proper temperature/humidity/lightning gradients.
7. They are good at navigating and remembering territory. In a small enclosure they will learn all the routes in a few hours and it's just boring (like for humans to be contained in a bathroom for the lifetime).
8. Free roaming around the house is deadly dangerous for them so it's not an option.

 

[timmy_tortoise]

Thanks a lot everyone for your help! It looks like it's going to be a challenge to get him a bigger enclosure... I brought it up to my family but it didn't go down well AT ALL. I said he needs more space and I was told we all need more space, tough luck ‍. I'm going to do everything I can to make his habitat better, but until I can move into a flat that's pet-friendly, he has to stay with my family. I'll do everything I can to make sure he gets sufficient roaming room (supervised) on the garden and on the kitchen floor. I really want to do better for him, but until he's in my care 24/7 this is unfortunately the best I can do but definitely going to look into making his enclosure more humid/ changing the substrate/ getting a better bulb and water bowl. Thanks again for everyone's help, much appreciated

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Thanks a lot everyone for your help! It looks like it's going to be a challenge to get him a bigger enclosure... I brought it up to my family but it didn't go down well AT ALL. I said he needs more space and I was told we all need more space, tough luck ‍. I'm going to do everything I can to make his habitat better, but until I can move into a flat that's pet-friendly, he has to stay with my family. I'll do everything I can to make sure he gets sufficient roaming room (supervised) on the garden and on the kitchen floor. I really want to do better for him, but until he's in my care 24/7 this is unfortunately the best I can do but definitely going to look into making his enclosure more humid/ changing the substrate/ getting a better bulb and water bowl. Thanks again for everyone's help, much appreciated

Bless you, trust me when I say I’ve been in this tricky position myself, our family red foot doesn’t belong to me and for years they were told she’d be fine in a 6footer full grown, it took so much time and convincing to get her a bigger space, even now it’s far from optimal, but we do what we can when things are out of our hands
What I will say is id stick with supervised roaming outdoors(as long as your garden is safe and secure, no pesticides etc) and skip the kitchen roams as the smooth surfaces aren’t good for their hips.

There are a few other ways to try and provide more roaming space without taking up as much floor space, ‘L’ shaped enclosures for example, or multiple levels providing the incline isn’t too steepI cover some of them in this one

Enclosure inspiration

Howdy folks! Hope everyone is well! As you all know, I’m a big fan of making threads that cater more towards visual learners like myself, I’ve really been wanting to create a thread full of adult enclosure inspiration for a while now, I’ve managed to find some great references over time! I do...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[timmy_tortoise]

Bless you, trust me when I say I’ve been in this tricky position myself, our family red foot doesn’t belong to me and for years they were told she’d be fine in a 6footer full grown, it took so much time and convincing to get her a bigger space, even now it’s far from optimal, but we do what we can when things are out of our hands
What I will say is id stick with supervised roaming outdoors(as long as your garden is safe and secure, no pesticides etc) and skip the kitchen roams as the smooth surfaces aren’t good for their hips.

There are a few other ways to try and provide more roaming space without taking up as much floor space, ‘L’ shaped enclosures for example, or multiple levels providing the incline isn’t too steepI cover some of them in this one

Enclosure inspiration

Howdy folks! Hope everyone is well! As you all know, I’m a big fan of making threads that cater more towards visual learners like myself, I’ve really been wanting to create a thread full of adult enclosure inspiration for a while now, I’ve managed to find some great references over time! I do...

tortoiseforum.org

Thanks for your help interesting point about the kitchen floor, I didn't know that! I thought that walking on hard flooring would be good for his nails but I guess I was wrong. Is it safe to take him outside even when it's winter/ raining? Our garden is safe (when he's supervised) but if he can't go outside in the winter and he can't go on the floor inside I don't know how else to help him exercise
Thanks again for the suggestions

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Thanks for your help interesting point about the kitchen floor, I didn't know that! I thought that walking on hard flooring would be good for his nails but I guess I was wrong. Is it safe to take him outside even when it's winter/ raining? Our garden is safe (when he's supervised) but if he can't go outside in the winter and he can't go on the floor inside I don't know how else to help him exercise
Thanks again for the suggestions

Yeah with hard flooring like cement that helps their nails, bit laminate is usually too smooth for them to have any grip, meaning their little legs have to work harder sometimes, if it’s too cold/wet I probably wouldn’t.
I might get a little told off for this but I completely sympathise with your position as I was going back, the uk is cold and wet pretty much year round, no good for our red foot, she used to have a tiny set up, so we literally had no choice but to get the heating up, move/block all hazards and let her do a few laps around, if you’re going to do this please stay right there with your tortoise, don’t leave the room and I’d only let them have 20-30mins tops, it’s not ideal as most it stressful being on the floor in a home environment, they’ll often poop to let you know that lol, but I completely understand wanting to let him stretch his legs a bit if that’s your only option for the time being, like I say just be right there with him and don’t do it for too long, if you notice he seems particularly stressed, ie running to hide and pooping every time, it’s probably not worth it

 

[timmy_tortoise]

Yeah with hard flooring like cement that helps their nails, bit laminate is usually too smooth for them to have any grip, meaning their little legs have to work harder sometimes, if it’s too cold/wet I probably wouldn’t.
I might get a little told off for this but I completely sympathise with your position as I was going back, the uk is cold and wet pretty much year round, no good for our red foot, she used to have a tiny set up, so we literally had no choice but to get the heating up, move/block all hazards and let her do a few laps around, if you’re going to do this please stay right there with your tortoise, don’t leave the room and I’d only let them have 20-30mins tops, it’s not ideal as most it stressful being on the floor in a home environment, they’ll often poop to let you know that lol, but I completely understand wanting to let him stretch his legs a bit if that’s your only option for the time being, like I say just be right there with him and don’t do it for too long, if you notice he seems particularly stressed, ie running to hide and pooping every time, it’s probably not worth it

Thanks a lot for this I'm in the UK too so having the same issue don't worry, I'd never leave him unattended especially with our cats around! When we've let him play on the floor before he explores for a bit but then spends the rest of the time sulking under the cupboard. Probably a good idea to limit it as much as I can. It's a shame the weather is so bad, he always seems to enjoy playing on the garden

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Thanks a lot for this I'm in the UK too so having the same issue don't worry, I'd never leave him unattended especially with our cats around! When we've let him play on the floor before he explores for a bit but then spends the rest of the time sulking under the cupboard. Probably a good idea to limit it as much as I can. It's a shame the weather is so bad, he always seems to enjoy playing on the garden

Maybe take him back to his enclosure when he starts hiding? Probably means he is done exploring and would rater hide in his enclosure.

 

[timmy_tortoise]

Maybe take him back to his enclosure when he starts hiding? Probably means he is done exploring and would rater hide in his enclosure.

Yeah, that's what we usually do

 

[COmtnLady]

Can I Allow My Tortoise To Roam the Floor of the House?

Letting a tortoise roam the floor of a house has long been a very common practice. Many believe that it is a good way to get exercise, or even just a way for a tortoise to have fun or explore. Some keepers even let their tortoises permanently roam their house instead of an enclosure, believing...

tortoiseforum.org