IS IT SAFE AND OKAY TO PAINT YOUR TORTOISE???

[Baoh]

Babies chew their hands/toes.

I realize turtles/tortoises are not human. No need to point that obvious factor out as it is a complete waste of time & unnecessary sarcasm.

And since we are in the topic of human/nonhuman: How exactly would you know what is and or isn't degrading for a tortoise/turtle?

Covering a shell with paint couldn't be much different than covering a nail. It suffocates your nail! I've damaged my own nails using nontoxic paints and aside from being unflattering, it's unhealthy.

Lastly, 'not good for you' is enough for me.

And if they chew their hands/toes, and there is no toxic substance on it, then they should be fine.

I will turn that around on you, since you made the point to say that it *is* degrading and the person who stakes the claim is considered to hold the onus for its defense. How exactly would you know what is or is not degrading for a tortoise/turtle?

Suffocates your nail? Really? Come on.

Not good for you applies to a great many things. There is a bit of difference between what does not apply additional goodness versus what applies badness. A pin on your shirt is not good for you, but it is typically not bad for you, either, so I would not crusade against pins on shirts as an abusive and degrading health risk.

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Frankly, I think people take up these things because they 1) want to be completely up in the business of other folks, 2) feel like anything anyone else does that is not what they do is somehow a heinous commitment of "wrong", 3) they want the attention, and 4) they like a black-and-white dichotomous view on things because it gives them psychological comfort in simplistic decisions and a false sense of superiority over those who decide in a differing way.

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RESPONSE: Stick to the topic! You analysis on why you believe people bring bring up these issues is totally wrong. Unlike you, some of us are passionate about what we believe is "right and wrong." It's not about controlling the masses into thinking the way someone else thinks. If you had some childhood psychological trama about "control" issues, I can't help you with that. There are doctors for that. And your last reason why you believe people debate issues like this was so off the mark so as to make you sound like an anal retentive elitist. I give people the benefit of the doubt so as to think that humans are much more complicated than to state some of us take a dichotomous view of black and white on this issue. I give our members more credit than that. When someone has to resort to question a person's ability to critical thinking, it's usually a deficiency on their part. So, let people express their opinions without resorting to insults and sarcasms. Yes, this applies to me too.

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I am unable to see any of what you claim in your posts on the matter.

 

[redfoot_mama94]

In my opinion, petsafe like specific non-toxic pet nail polish would be fine on a torts claws, there is even baby safe nail polish which I think would probably be okay also. Using the mind set that shells are made of mostly keratin (i believe?) And nails are also majorly keratin so except on new growth pet polish and/or baby nail polish would theoretically be okay on shells? No bashing here please im just thinking outloud here also, as for a photoshoot like just for fun or for Halloween especially I don't see why non toxic paint should be an issue.

As for the 'decorative' concept, some find it degrading, some find it cute or attractive. It's all a matter of opinion and i don't think that is what we're debating here but I might be wrong

1.1 human baby's (grayson & mackenzie)
1.1 bunnies
0.1 eastern painted (wendy)
0.1 treeing walker coonhound (daisy)
0.1.5 mainecoon mix (vera & her kittens)

 

[Levi the Leopard]

I put a small dot of nail polish on my female Russians to help me identify them. It's on the scute over their butt, right in the center not, touching new growth.

My newest Leopard hatchlings had nail polish dots also. I removed them because I can identify them easily by their patterns.

To answer the original question,
I have no reservations about doing so because I have concluded it to be safe.


Sent from my TFOapp

 

[Tom]

My opinions on the matter:

I don't like seeing turtles and tortoises "painted". I don't think they care one bit, but I dislike it for purely emotional, personal reasons.

I don't see it as harmful to the tortoise if the paint isn't toxic and its washed off fairly soon, AND if the tortoise doesn't mind the extra "attention" while its being painted.

I have zero problem with nail polish dots to ID tortoises in groups. I'm guilty of this one myself, and plan to do it again.

I do have a problem with some paints, like nail polish, being painted into, and left on, the growth lines of tortoises. I think this might be able to do damage in some circumstances, yet I offer no proof of this. Mere speculation on my part, given some of the growth anomalies I've seen over the years.

 

[wiccan_chicken]

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These are tortoises, not hermit crabs. Using dots to ID a baby is perfectly fine with me, same as breeders of dogs using colored twine or painted nails to ID the puppies (A friend of mine paints her puppies nails so she knows which puppy is which and also not to mess up the neck fur of the future show dogs)

But painting the animal's shell that it can't dispose of.... Like I said this is a tortoise, not a hermit crap. You want to paint something buy a canvas and paint your turtle with a painted shell. I love how my girl Vodka's shell looks golden and the beautiful black speckles look together. I wouldn't paint my russian for the world!

So then you are okay with painting a tortoise's claws?

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I don't see the harm or good in it. A few dots on a scute to ID is as far as I would go with a tortoise, but the claws of puppies were being painted basically for the purpose of the dots on the scute. One or two nails on one paw were painted and that's it. That's when the whole litter were salt and pepper Schnauzers. It would be tedious and aggravating to paint a tortoises claws because they would pull away and digging would wear the paint off way too fast. What's the point?

I find it silly to paint a dog or tortoise with nail polish or dye them. Like how the chickens are dyed for easter. Sure it looks cute but what's the point? It won't stay that color forever.

I am completely against letting a child or person paint their tortoise just for cosmetic reasons unless it is easy to wash off, like the halloween contest. I don't approve of using acrylics or sharpie on a vast majority of the tortoise because it might stain the shell, it will be hard to wear off and some of the chemicals might seep through a part of the tort and make it sick or harm it. And if it doesn't make it sick, it will be there for a long time. I would rather crochet my tort a pumpkin or dino costume than paint it but if I ever did it would be with tempera paints because they're non toxic and super easy to remove. ( If I can crochet it I definatley won't paint it. I'd rather make something by hand that can be used again and again plus I would rather not paint my tort for the reason's stated above.)

 

[Yvonne G]

You all DO understand "debate," right? It doesn't mean you're supposed to get mad and start calling each other names if the other guy doesn't agree with your stance on the subject. It means, you make your point, the other guy rebutts and makes his point, back and forth, etc, ad infinitum (read nauseum).

It serves NO purpose when you start to get mad and the posts go downhill.

 

[luvpetz27]

You all DO understand "debate," right? It doesn't mean you're supposed to get mad and start calling each other names if the other guy doesn't agree with your stance on the subject. It means, you make your point, the other guy rebutts and makes his point, back and forth, etc, ad infinitum (read nauseum).

It serves NO purpose when you start to get mad and the posts go downhill.

I think it is hard sometimes not to get mad. A lot of the debates seem to get out of control sometimes. I think it is a normal reaction with some people who really believe in something. This is just my opinion. I am sure we ALL have got a little out of control on one thread or another.

 

[wellington]

I don't like painting any animal for any reason. Not for fun, holidays or a picture. For marking an animal to tell them apart, that I see no harm, mainly so they can be picked out of a for sale pic. I never had to do this. I have only bred dogs and could tell them apart very easily.

 

[Sh3wulf]

Tortoises are so naturally stunning I don't understand people's inclination for decorating them further. But I have tattoos, piercings, and wear make up and high heels regularly, so I may be biased and a bit of a hypocrite here, but don't feel that the argument of it being unnatural is a valid point. as has been stated, the very idea that having a Russian, Leopard, Greek, whatever you currently have residing with you, is natural is a contradiction. Tortoises are wild animals. We haven't domesticated them, they reside with us because they are kept in enclosures, pens, tanks. We medicate them, feed them a variety of foods consistently and handle them. All unnatural. In the wild they would be subject to incline by weather, parasites, destruction of feeding grounds, hunting, poaching and a myriad of other horrors.
Therefore if the painting of a tort is someones inclination and doesn't harm there companion I would conclude that no one has a right to tell anyone else what they may or may not do with an animal they are taking reasonably good care of.
As a side, Glad to see the debate return to a debate about polish. Sorry to the members that were offended or feeling defensive, personal attacks during debate are uncalled for, thus why I took my time weighing in.
Sincerely tattooed freak lol

 

[sibi]

The issue I see here is one of health...the health of a tortoise. The notion that nail polish, even those marked as safe, is really not safe at all. If your nail products is labeled "Toxin-Free" but contains the “Toxic Three” chemicals (Dibutyl phthalate (DBP), Toluene, Formaldehyde), then it's toxic to you and your tortoise. Note what this article has to say:

"The California EPA’s Department of Toxic Substances Control (DTSC) researchers sent 25 nail products from various salons across the state to an independent lab for testing to see if they contained three specific chemicals:

Dibutyl phthalate (DBP)
Toluene
Formaldehyde

Known as the “toxic three,” these chemicals present potential health risks, including asthma, developmental problems, and other illnesses.

All three are linked to chronic health conditions if inhaled. Toluene and formaldehyde have been tested on both humans and animals; DBP has only been tested on animals.

DBP has been banned for use in nail products throughout Europe, which also has strict limits on the amount of formaldehyde and toluene that can be used. However in the U.S., use of these chemicals in nail products is not illegal, as long as the bottles or other containers are properly labeled.

Testing of the products revealed that:

Many of the 25 tested were labeled toxin-free, but some contained one or more of the three chemicals.
Five of 7 products claiming to be "free of the toxic three" had one or more of the chemicals in significant levels.
Ten of 12 products that claimed to be free of toluene actually contained it, and 4 of the 10 had dangerously high levels.

So are the labels on some nail products deliberately misleading? You’ll have to decide for yourself.

One manufacturer of nail products labeled as toxin-free but found to contain one or more of the “toxic three” chemicals says he disputes the DTSC report and plans to challenge it.

Another manufacturer whose products were found to contain toluene says he has no idea how the chemical got there and suggests perhaps it was contaminated during testing by the DTSC.

My Recommendations

Read Dr. Mercola’s article New Warning About Manicures, Piercings and Tattoos and pay special attention to the section titled The Health Dangers of Manicures and Nail Polish.
Consult the Environmental Working Group’s Skin Deep Cosmetics Database for help determining the safety of the nail products you use (or to get help finding safer products).
If you do your own nails at home, I recommend keeping your pet out of the room until the job is done, your nails are completely dry, you’ve put all the products away out of reach of your pet, and you’ve washed your hands thoroughly with soap and warm water.
If you can’t resist polishing your dog’s nails, use a quick-drying pet-safe polish and polish remover. Your dog’s nails, pads and paws should be in good shape, with no cracks, tears, open sores or any other condition that could be aggravated by polish or polish remover. Don’t allow your dog to lick or bite at her nails until they dry, and if you find she’s licking or chewing at them after they’re dry, I recommend removing the polish just to be on the safe side."

Source: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/05/28/pets-nail-polish-hazards.aspx

Is painting your tortoise worth the risk of toxicity? Mind you, tests conducted were of "healthy specimens." Now factor in if your tortoise's shell is cracked, pyramiding, damaged in some same, the amount of toxicity has just increased.

Yes, people are free do whatever they want to their animals, but to be blindsided into thinking "so long as there's no harm done," is deceiving yourself. Harm is being done, whether you are aware of it or not, and the one who pays the ultimate price is your animal.


.

 

[Baoh]

LOL

Mercola.

All you had to post was his name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Mercola

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

I am able to use images to sort species with patterns like leopards, pancakes, etc. For those with no pattern a sharpie and a few dots and I can keep dozens sorted out by how many dots are in which scute.

Simple, effective, and easy.


Will

 

[Baoh]

Yeah, I do not need to mark mine at all to track them, but other breeders see a benefit and I have noticed it is easier for buyers to keep things straight when making selections (I offer selections; sometimes this is a pain since I do not mark mine, but I take group photos generally and just have them draw a circle in MS Paint or something similar).

 

[luvpetz27]

The issue I see here is one of health...the health of a tortoise. The notion that nail polish, even those marked as safe, is really not safe at all. If your nail products is labeled "Toxin-Free" but contains the “Toxic Three” chemicals (Dibutyl phthalate (DBP), Toluene, Formaldehyde), then it's toxic to you and your tortoise. Note what this article has to say:

"The California EPA’s Department of Toxic Substances Control (DTSC) researchers sent 25 nail products from various salons across the state to an independent lab for testing to see if they contained three specific chemicals:

Dibutyl phthalate (DBP)
Toluene
Formaldehyde

Known as the “toxic three,” these chemicals present potential health risks, including asthma, developmental problems, and other illnesses.

All three are linked to chronic health conditions if inhaled. Toluene and formaldehyde have been tested on both humans and animals; DBP has only been tested on animals.

DBP has been banned for use in nail products throughout Europe, which also has strict limits on the amount of formaldehyde and toluene that can be used. However in the U.S., use of these chemicals in nail products is not illegal, as long as the bottles or other containers are properly labeled.

Testing of the products revealed that:

Many of the 25 tested were labeled toxin-free, but some contained one or more of the three chemicals.
Five of 7 products claiming to be "free of the toxic three" had one or more of the chemicals in significant levels.
Ten of 12 products that claimed to be free of toluene actually contained it, and 4 of the 10 had dangerously high levels.

So are the labels on some nail products deliberately misleading? You’ll have to decide for yourself.

One manufacturer of nail products labeled as toxin-free but found to contain one or more of the “toxic three” chemicals says he disputes the DTSC report and plans to challenge it.

Another manufacturer whose products were found to contain toluene says he has no idea how the chemical got there and suggests perhaps it was contaminated during testing by the DTSC.

My Recommendations

Read Dr. Mercola’s article New Warning About Manicures, Piercings and Tattoos and pay special attention to the section titled The Health Dangers of Manicures and Nail Polish.
Consult the Environmental Working Group’s Skin Deep Cosmetics Database for help determining the safety of the nail products you use (or to get help finding safer products).
If you do your own nails at home, I recommend keeping your pet out of the room until the job is done, your nails are completely dry, you’ve put all the products away out of reach of your pet, and you’ve washed your hands thoroughly with soap and warm water.
If you can’t resist polishing your dog’s nails, use a quick-drying pet-safe polish and polish remover. Your dog’s nails, pads and paws should be in good shape, with no cracks, tears, open sores or any other condition that could be aggravated by polish or polish remover. Don’t allow your dog to lick or bite at her nails until they dry, and if you find she’s licking or chewing at them after they’re dry, I recommend removing the polish just to be on the safe side."

Source: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/05/28/pets-nail-polish-hazards.aspx

Is painting your tortoise worth the risk of toxicity? Mind you, tests conducted were of "healthy specimens." Now factor in if your tortoise's shell is cracked, pyramiding, damaged in some same, the amount of toxicity has just increased.

Yes, people are free do whatever they want to their animals, but to be blindsided into thinking "so long as there's no harm done," is deceiving yourself. Harm is being done, whether you are aware of it or not, and the one who pays the ultimate price is your animal.


.

THANK YOU! Great info!

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LOL

Mercola.

All you had to post was his name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Mercola

Wow......really? This is the kind of smart*** comment that starts the bashing!!

 

[Baoh]

Really. Do some research. There are very good reasons why he is an oft-highlighted subject of Quack Watch.

The link I posted, which you quoted, provides plenty of interesting subject matter.

 

[hunterk997]

Tortoises are so naturally stunning I don't understand people's inclination for decorating them further. But I have tattoos, piercings, and wear make up and high heels regularly, so I may be biased and a bit of a hypocrite here, but don't feel that the argument of it being unnatural is a valid point. as has been stated, the very idea that having a Russian, Leopard, Greek, whatever you currently have residing with you, is natural is a contradiction. Tortoises are wild animals. We haven't domesticated them, they reside with us because they are kept in enclosures, pens, tanks. We medicate them, feed them a variety of foods consistently and handle them. All unnatural. In the wild they would be subject to incline by weather, parasites, destruction of feeding grounds, hunting, poaching and a myriad of other horrors.
Therefore if the painting of a tort is someones inclination and doesn't harm there companion I would conclude that no one has a right to tell anyone else what they may or may not do with an animal they are taking reasonably good care of.
As a side, Glad to see the debate return to a debate about polish. Sorry to the members that were offended or feeling defensive, personal attacks during debate are uncalled for, thus why I took my time weighing in.
Sincerely tattooed freak lol

I completely agree with you on this. Those are some really great points.

 

[Joanne]

I enjoyed reading this thread!

I tend to not paint my nails on my hands, because when I did my nails became weak and brittle. I do paint my toe nails and they are hard as.... Nails I guess!

I have painted my dogs nails silver in the past so he would look like wolverine. The dog allowed me to do this and in no way was he forced.

I would personally not paint Shermann's shell. I would rather oil it up and get it all shiny. I like shiny things.

 

[sibi]

Good for you because I have found some nasty chemicals in the nail polishes I have at home. I can't imagine what kind of damage it does to a tort whose shell is almost entirely painted with the stuff.

 

[Joanne]

The good old EU mothership makes sure there are no harmful chemicals in my nail varnishes they also make sure that my bananas aren't too straight!

 

[Rural]

I would think it's unhealthy, but I don't know if it's directly unsafe, even though you're basically putting chemicals on the torts shell for the removal with nailpolish remover or acetone. I personally think it's unacceptable to do body mods on your pet, no matter if it's nail polish on a turtle shell or a gold teeth on a dog. I think nail polish, piercings, grillz, stretched ears, tattoos etc. is for humans who choose to get them, not animals who the owner want them look aesthetic.