Is my Hermann Pyramiding?

Zeus19

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Hi, I have a 2 year old Hermann. I just was wondering if anyone could tell me if these are the first signs of pyramiding? I am worried about him :(
 

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TeamZissou

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Overall, yes, your tortoise has been pyramiding for a while. You can improve future growth by increasing the humidity in your enclosure and soaking daily for 30+ minutes.

What bulbs are you using? How long are they on? Mercury vapor bulbs (MVBs) also contribute to pyramiding. A regular incandescent flood bulb helps with this and can spread out the heat.

9959EFC4-B35C-4ABF-8111-05FD2FA7CBC8.jpg
 

Zeus19

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Overall, yes, your tortoise has been pyramiding for a while. You can improve future growth by increasing the humidity in your enclosure and soaking daily for 30+ minutes.

What bulbs are you using? How long are they on? Mercury vapor bulbs (MVBs) also contribute to pyramiding. A regular incandescent flood bulb helps with this and can spread out the heat.

View attachment 335844
Oh no!! I only got him recently so he must have been pyramiding already :(

Yes i currently have a mercury vapour lamp (UBA and UBV), I have it on right now for 10 hours.

Do you have any recommendations of incandescent flood bulbs? Do they do both UBA and UBV? or will i need to get another bulb for that?
 

TeamZissou

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Here's the care sheet:

General rule of thumb is to get a linear tube type UV bulb (a T5 high output (HO) bulb) and fixture and to run it at about 1.5-2 hours per day. MVBs excessively dry out the shell and lead to raised growth. For basking, A regular incandescent flood bulb from the hardware store good. No specialty bulbs needed. Adjust the height to get the correct temperature.

Tom's four elements of heating and lighting:
  • You've gotten a lot of the wrong care info. Pet shops and vets are infamous for this. The purpose of telling you all this is not to offend you or hurt your feelings, it is to help you understand how to take better care of your tortoise. I'll point out the issues I see one at a time from the text of your post, and then I'll link the correct care info for you. Questions are welcome.

    12 hours. day is too much time for the UV. It is't like that outside. There is hardly any UV in the morning and afternoon, but there is a big spike mid day. Best to simulate that.
    There are four elements to heating and lighting:
    1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
    2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. You'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night.
    3. Light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in bulb types are both fine.
    4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html



    Here is the correct care info:
 

Zeus19

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Thank you so much for your help! I was told in the reptile shop to get the MVB, I should have looked here first.

Should I just get the Arcadia bulb that tom recommended then? I can't seem to find any fixture for a tortoise table do you have any recommendations?

Would this bulb be suitable?
 

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ZenHerper

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Thank you so much for your help! I was told in the reptile shop to get the MVB, I should have looked here first.

Should I just get the Arcadia bulb that tom recommended then? I can't seem to find any fixture for a tortoise table do you have any recommendations?

Would this bulb be suitable?
This is an "Energy Efficient" bulb...which will not produce heat.

You need an incandescent bulb (the old old style).

@Lyn W @zolasmum
 

Zeus19

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Thank you! Is this better then? I just want to make sure i buy the correct one.

These are really difficult to find in the UK for some reason. It still says lower heat generation but I'm hoping its not sufficiently lower.
 

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ZenHerper

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They're tough to find everywhere...efficiency initiatives.

That one says "lower heat generation"...so maybe if it comes in a higher wattage?

I tagged some UKers, so they should have brands and sellers.

I like these (I suspect the unhappy reviewer did not use a ceramic lamp.) :

Or I get a chick brooder bulb from the local farm supply store. Depends on how much heat I need.
 

ZenHerper

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The other reliable technique is to use Ceramic Heat Emitting bulbs paired with (cold) LEDs and the uvb radiation tube. As long as the ambient light is bright enough to signal Daytime, heat can be managed with the light-free CHE(s).

Photos of your set up would help.
 

Zeus19

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Hi thank you so much for you help. This is my current set up, but I in the process of building him a larger cage as I know this pet shop one is too small for him
 

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Zeus19

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I was wondering if these two bulbs together would be suitable? Thank you so much for your help there are so many bulbs its confusing.

I have also bought some fine grade orchid bark to increase humidity as that seems to be highly recommended on this forum.
 

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Karen(pebbles)

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Hi and welcome to the forum, I use the Acadia floodlight bulb as recommended here on the forum, I get mine online from Internet Reptile, hope this helps
 

TeamZissou

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I was wondering if these two bulbs together would be suitable? Thank you so much for your help there are so many bulbs its confusing.

I have also bought some fine grade orchid bark to increase humidity as that seems to be highly recommended on this forum.

This is the correct Arcadia UV bulb. It will need to be mounted about 24" above the substrate. This is just a guess at the correct UV index (UVI). It isn't possible to know the actual UVI at the tortoise level without measuring it with a Solarmeter 6.5. Run the UV bulb for 2 hours, midday. If you could get the tortoise outside under natural sun for a few hours a week you could skip the UV bulb altogether. This would be based on your climate.

Yes this would work in lieu of finding an incandescent flood bulb at a hardware store which would be cheaper. Its tough to know all the light bulb laws, so they may not be available as you mentioned.

You will find that it is hard to keep high enough humidity (70%+) with an open topped table like you have, even with the bark. It would be better if your tortoise was in a closed chamber since he still has a lot of growing to do. A 4 x 2 foot setup like you have will need to be upgraded larger quite soon to give him enough space to roam.
 

Lyn W

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Hi and welcome from Wales.
MVBs are a convenient way of supplying heat, light and UVB in one and used to be recommended, but once I found out about the damage they can do I changed mine to a T5H HO tube for uvb, and a flood basking bulb - both Arcadia. Spots are too intense.
I also use a CHE run through a thermostat for night heat - the thermostat keeps the temps even and stops it from getting too hot for the tort, I also use it for extra heat when needed. I bought the Arcadia lamps online but the CHE and thermostat came from The Range for about £50 but are available online too.

I don't think anyone has linked this yet, but case you haven't already found it this is the caresheet you need which will give you the temps, humidity etc you need.
Ask as many questions as you like to clarify anything.
 

Zeus19

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Hi and welcome from Wales.
MVBs are a convenient way of supplying heat, light and UVB in one and used to be recommended, but once I found out about the damage they can do I changed mine to a T5H HO tube for uvb, and a flood basking bulb - both Arcadia. Spots are too intense.
I also use a CHE run through a thermostat for night heat - the thermostat keeps the temps even and stops it from getting too hot for the tort, I also use it for extra heat when needed. I bought the Arcadia lamps online but the CHE and thermostat came from The Range for about £50 but are available online too.

I don't think anyone has linked this yet, but case you haven't already found it this is the caresheet you need which will give you the temps, humidity etc you need.
Ask as many questions as you like to clarify anything.

Okay thank you, I am going to get the Arcadia floodlight bulb and Arcadia T5 HO tube.
Thank you so much for being so helpful x
 

Lyn W

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Okay thank you, I am going to get the Arcadia floodlight bulb and Arcadia T5 HO tube.
Thank you so much for being so helpful x
I'm not sure which one you'll need for a Hermanns (I have a leopard) but the caresheet may help you with that.
You'll need a good thermometer to measure temps at tort shell level to set the height of the basking bulb/che to get the right basking temps - also in caresheet. I use a stone or upturned bowl the same height as my tort to test that.
 

Lulabee247

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Overall, yes, your tortoise has been pyramiding for a while. You can improve future growth by increasing the humidity in your enclosure and soaking daily for 30+ minutes.

What bulbs are you using? How long are they on? Mercury vapor bulbs (MVBs) also contribute to pyramiding. A regular incandescent flood bulb helps with this and can spread out the heat.

View attachment 335844
Wow this pic is soooo informative thank you very much ❤️?
 
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