Is this true?

[jeff kushner]

Copy/pasted from https://urbanecologycenter.org/item/1250-the-resiliency-of-box-turtles-during-winter.html

"Box turtles can even withstand freezing inside of their body cavity for short periods of time. If the temperature around them drops below 17-degrees Fahrenheit, the fluids inside of the box turtle’s body may begin to freeze. Box turtles can tolerate ice surrounding their lungs, skeletal muscles, or even their brains (talk about a brain freeze!); up to 58% of the body water of a box turtle can freeze for up to 50 hours and the turtle would still be able to recover."



I'm asking for some of the talent here to vouch for this or not....I'm guessing someone has seen this article before since it's a couple years old


thanks,

jeff

 

[DoubleD1996!]

Copy/pasted from https://urbanecologycenter.org/item/1250-the-resiliency-of-box-turtles-during-winter.html

"Box turtles can even withstand freezing inside of their body cavity for short periods of time. If the temperature around them drops below 17-degrees Fahrenheit, the fluids inside of the box turtle’s body may begin to freeze. Box turtles can tolerate ice surrounding their lungs, skeletal muscles, or even their brains (talk about a brain freeze!); up to 58% of the body water of a box turtle can freeze for up to 50 hours and the turtle would still be able to recover."



I'm asking for some of the talent here to vouch for this or not....I'm guessing someone has seen this article before since it's a couple years old


thanks,

jeff

I don't know about talent, but I think it's true. We got down into the teens with freezing rain earlier this year and all mine did well with the exception of one female getting a respiratory infection. She bounced back quick though.

 

[jeff kushner]

I think you count as "talent" DD, don't sell yourself short.......you have more than me! LOL

I have THOUGHT my turtles were being frozen or partially so when I had a shallow concrete pond that would seemingly freeze solid, but the little guys would show up in the Spring!

I never knew for sure though that like many frogs and a few others, they can endure actual body-water freezing!

Wow!

 

[DoubleD1996!]

I think you count as "talent" DD, don't sell yourself short.......you have more than me! LOL

I have THOUGHT my turtles were being frozen or partially so when I had a shallow concrete pond that would seemingly freeze solid, but the little guys would show up in the Spring!

I never knew for sure though that like many frogs and a few others, they can endure actual body-water freezing!

Wow!

It's incredible. There's a species of cricket that can do the same thing in straight ice!

 

[Cathie G]

It doesn't surprise me that critters find a way to survive 😉. And box turtles probably already know where the warmest place in their burrow is from sunshine during the day to get a bit of a thaw... I'm no expert so we'll see. Interesting 🤔🤗

 

[Markw84]

Copy/pasted from https://urbanecologycenter.org/item/1250-the-resiliency-of-box-turtles-during-winter.html

"Box turtles can even withstand freezing inside of their body cavity for short periods of time. If the temperature around them drops below 17-degrees Fahrenheit, the fluids inside of the box turtle’s body may begin to freeze. Box turtles can tolerate ice surrounding their lungs, skeletal muscles, or even their brains (talk about a brain freeze!); up to 58% of the body water of a box turtle can freeze for up to 50 hours and the turtle would still be able to recover."



I'm asking for some of the talent here to vouch for this or not....I'm guessing someone has seen this article before since it's a couple years old


thanks,

jeff

Yes, this is indeed true and the subject of lots of ongoing research. Painted turtles are the most studied and apparently the most equipped for this. They can freeze solid and then thaw when weather warms and be totally unharmed. Lot of scientific stuff to explain, but their bodies have the ability to both deal with ice crystal formation - which would damage cells and kill - as well as surviving extremely long periods with absolutely no oxygen to their cells and brain. Everything from genes that change the transmission of molecules across membranes, to the formation of cryptoprotectants that serve as a form of antifreeze in the cells.

Amazing stuff!!

 

[TammyJ]

Yes, this is indeed true and the subject of lots of ongoing research. Painted turtles are the most studied and apparently the most equipped for this. They can freeze solid and then thaw when weather warms and be totally unharmed. Lot of scientific stuff to explain, but their bodies have the ability to both deal with ice crystal formation - which would damage cells and kill - as well as surviving extremely long periods with absolutely no oxygen to their cells and brain. Everything from genes that change the transmission of molecules across membranes, to the formation of cryptoprotectants that serve as a form of antifreeze in the cells.

Amazing stuff!!

Wow!

 

[JTH]

Copy/pasted from https://urbanecologycenter.org/item/1250-the-resiliency-of-box-turtles-during-winter.html

"Box turtles can even withstand freezing inside of their body cavity for short periods of time. If the temperature around them drops below 17-degrees Fahrenheit, the fluids inside of the box turtle’s body may begin to freeze. Box turtles can tolerate ice surrounding their lungs, skeletal muscles, or even their brains (talk about a brain freeze!); up to 58% of the body water of a box turtle can freeze for up to 50 hours and the turtle would still be able to recover."



I'm asking for some of the talent here to vouch for this or not....I'm guessing someone has seen this article before since it's a couple years old


thanks,

jeff

As others have said, the general statement is true, but there's a big "if." It assumes that the turtle has dug into the leaf litter and surface soil in fall, and has gradually cooled down, going into hibernation (or brumation) mode. Under these conditions, they can tolerate subfreezing temperatures, at least for a limited time. If you suddenly stuck a box turtle that had been active into your freezer, it would die. By the way, Painted Turtle hatchlings are freeze tolerant in the nest, but juveniles and adults are not... they hibernate while submerged in a pond or lake that does not freeze to the bottom.

 

[mark1]

ground temperature brings them out in the spring , i dig up enough every spring to get an idea of how deep they go ...... the ones that go deep are the ones that i dig up , the ground temp is lagging behind the ground temp of the ones that were closer to the surface ....... i've never seen one deeper than 4-6" to the top of their shell......... frost line here is 36-42" , ground temp here at 6" averages 24-27 F for almost a month over the last 10yrs ....... i've kept a probe at the dirt surface in their leaf pile for a lot of years , i've seen it at 26F more than once ........

i think this is a pretty good article , it is pretty much what i've seen with eastern box turtles ........


Hibernation experience of Testudo hermanni and Testudo graeca in natural and very close to natural conditions in Bulgaria
There is some documentation of freeze tolerance of North American Box turtles: Terrapene carolina recovered from freezing in laboratory studies at a body temperature as low as –3.6°С, for up to 3 – 4 days, during which 44-58% of the body water froze. Terrapene ornate experience hibernacula temperatures as low as -8°С, up to 54 days (Ultsch, 2006). Hatchlings of some terrestrially hibernating North American species Chrysemys picta bellii are known to recover from supercooling to temperatures as low as –10 to -15°С, others like Kinosternon flavescens and Trachemys scripta supercooled to –6 or below (Costanzo et. al, 2001).


the author
Ivo Ivanchev's scientific contributions

 

[jeff kushner]

Thanks for posting that Mark, I have it tee'd up to read later.