Just a few questions....

[ShreddersMom]

My boyfriend and I recently adopted a 3 1/2 year sulfate from a gentleman who couldn't care for him anymore. He hasn't ever received proper lighting,only ever having UVA available instead of B. He lived on grocery store greens, and commercial pellets that weren't rehydrated. He lived on hay, with no temperature gauges or humidity except whatever the room was at. We've had him for about three weeks. He has some pyramiding, and was very dull when we got him.

Since getting him we have changed his substrate to peat moss in his hide, and coconut coir and play sand in the rest of his box. Added a MVB 100w UVB bulb and a 60w ceramic emitter at night. We have attempted to switch his diet to hay and cactus pads and other various healthy greens. So far he just curls up to sleep on his hay, and isn't big on eating. We have had most success with rehydrated ZooMed pellets. His box stays about 75* during the day, sometimes as high as 80, and around 70* at night. His hygrometer in his hide we try to keep between 40-50%. He is bathed in luke warm water for about 10 minutes once a week, and misted daily when we mist his substrate.

He rarely brings himself out of his hide. He's not eating what I feel is any significant amount of food. If we force him out of his hide he will cruise around the room for a bit before hiding again. His shell has gotten brighter, and he digs a lot, but we never see him coming out of his hide to come eat or drink. He only eats after we drag him out of his hide. I know nothing about how he lived in his old home, except for the fact that the previous owner said he wouldn't hear or see the tortoise for days at a time so he would check to see if he was alive every few days.

What should I do/change, etc. I want to do right by this guy. He's in a small tortoise box right now, but that will be changed come spring. Hopefully not too much longer.

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

Hello

 

[ShreddersMom]

These are before and after pictures. Meet Shredder.

 

[ShreddersMom]

Thank you

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi:

It looks like Shredder might benefit from having a bigger enclosure, and more humidity in it (covered with moist substrate).

It's uncommon for a sulcata not to eat. Normally they are eating machines. Any chance you can talk to the previous owners and find out what they fed the tortoise. Sometimes tortoises don't recognise new foods as being edible.

 

[ShreddersMom]

Hi Yvonne,

If you had read my post, you'd would have seen that he will eventually get a bigger enclosure. I am well aware of that fact. Unfortunately it is not an option right now due to multiple reasons.

As far as humidity goes, everything I've read previously says to keep humidity between 40-50%, which is exactly where his stays. If you're saying it should be higher, how much higher, and where can I find further info to support increasing humidity?

I am aware it is unusual for them not to eat, hence my concern. I'm trying to figure him out still. That's my main reason for posting.

 

[ShreddersMom]

As I also stated, his previous owner fed him grocery store greens and ZooMed pellets. He is still offered both of these along with better foods for him. His previous owner really knows nothing about him. As I said in my original post, he would go days not even being sure if he was alive. :-/ I want to give him a better life, but he's not making it an easier.

 

[leigti]

Take the divider out, that will give him more room. They don't need that big of a hide area. I would soak him every other day or so for at least half an hour. He's probably chronically dehydrated from the poor care he got before. They need the temperature at least 80° to be able to digest their food. If they're too cold they will not eat.
Is that the zoo med tortoise house you have? I had one of those for my Russian tortoise when I first got her. Because it is cheap wood it will not last long, probably not even a few months, with the amount of humidity that your tortoise needs. Home Depot has a great 54 gallon tote, I think it's Rubbermaid, that runs around $27. It's still not big enough but it would do for a while and it won't rot from damp substrate. And if you cut a hole in the lid just big enough for the lights then it is easier to keep the heat and humidity in it.
I can't remember, did you try Romain? Tortoises usually love that, and you can mix in the rehydrated grassland tortoise pellets along with other good greens.

 

[leigti]

OK, I went back and read. Grocery store greens and grassland pellets aren't as bad as he would think. Depending on where you live that might be all you have right now. See if your store carries dandelion greens or cactus pads. But I think if you can get him hydrated and keep you warm he will start eating. Sometimes it takes a little time for them to get used to a new place. And it doesn't sound like anybody gave him any attention before so he may not be used to being stared a and watched by people give him time.

 

[ShreddersMom]

Not having complete darkness and lower temperatures when he opts to be in his hide won't hurt him? If not, I'm all for it. I don't feel like he's getting enough uvb with the amount he hides. I will also increase his temps. It is the ZooMed box that he came in. When we changed out substrate I knew we would be drastically increasing his humidity. The bottom of the box we lined in plastic sheeting. One to help with humidity and two to help prevent the box from rotting. I will definitely go look for the Tupperware you're talking about. We don't have anything here in stores that big. He has had romaine offered with no luck. He's just not interested.

 

[leigti]

It will get you through until you can make a much bigger enclosure. I would skip the sand and add more coconut coir. They love to dig so you can make it deep. Pour water in and stir it around with your hands, it should be damp but not soggy. If that makes any sense.
You might have to stick with the Romain and grassland for a while, he needs to eat. Just slowly integrate other stuff into it. The ceramic heat emitter should be able to keep the heat up to 80 even at night so it can be dark.

 

[ShreddersMom]

We just removed his wall, and soaked him (it was on our list to do anyway) and for the first time he actually drank during his bath. He hadn't peed or pooped in it, so I let him drink away. While he was soaking, I took a food processor and blended up some of his pellets, his hay, and some cactus pad, with some water dude is choking down. I've never seen him so enthused to eat. I don't know what it was about the combination but tonight it worked, so I'll take it. I still don't think he ate enough, but he ate, so I'm happy. I'll go to the farmers market tomorrow and pick up some more cactus pads. Anything else you recommend that I could mix in to tempt him to eat, even if it's only something used in moderation?

 

[ShreddersMom]

Our food processor is pretty old, so he will be getting a new one tomorrow. Lol. Spoiled tortoise.

 

[leigti]

It's good that he's eating now. Evens just chopping it up small works. But the food processor will let you sneak a few other things in easily. You can supplement with a pinch of calcium powder or miner-all couple times a week. Maybe he's finally hydrated and warm enough. And maybe he's feeling more secure now. Give him as much food as he will eat, sometimes I feed my Russian a couple times a day rather than one big amounts in the morning but you can do whatever works for you. He will keep us posted on how he's doing.

 

[leigti]

Check out the care sheet at the top of the sulcata section, Tom has written up a huge list of things they can eat. The fact that he is eating hey and cactus and the grassland pellets is a good thing. Variety overtime is the key. A friend of mine has a big sulcata and he really likes carrot tops.

 

[leigti]

Once he starts eating better you can keep things whole and it will help keep him occupied. Turnip greens, beat greens, collard greens, and endive, escarole.

 

[ShreddersMom]

I think we are going to stick to processed things right now. This is the most I've seen him eat. I'm going to pick up some ice cube trays tomorrow and make some batches of different stuff and freeze it so all we have to do is defrost the cube. That way he has variations. You don't know how happy it made me to see him eat. He's not a fan of removing his hide divider. In fact, he's rather pissed I think. Oh well. He will adjust.

 

[leigti]

You may find that when you defrosted it's just going to be a pile of goo. Most things don't freeze and thaw well. I tried it with my box turtle, and although they eat different types of food then your tortoise does, it just didn't work out well at all.
You can put some kind of hide in there, a plastic dish tub with a hole cut in it works. Or a plastic or terra-cotta plant pot.

 

[ShreddersMom]

The stuff I made tonight was literally mush and he *loved* it. We will see what happens I guess. I can always just add some chopped up hay when I defrost it to give it some texture. That may actually work well. We are going to the farmers market tomorrow to pick up a few things to try. Thanks for all the help guys. I was so happy to see my little guy eat. I'll start weighing him tomorrow to make sure he's making progress. I see how you guys post about your tortoises at this age weigh10-15 pounds and our dude is nowhere near that. A vet appointment is also in order soon.

 

[Tom]

My boyfriend and I recently adopted a 3 1/2 year sulfate from a gentleman who couldn't care for him anymore. He hasn't ever received proper lighting,only ever having UVA available instead of B. He lived on grocery store greens, and commercial pellets that weren't rehydrated. He lived on hay, with no temperature gauges or humidity except whatever the room was at. We've had him for about three weeks. He has some pyramiding, and was very dull when we got him.

Since getting him we have changed his substrate to peat moss in his hide, and coconut coir and play sand in the rest of his box. Added a MVB 100w UVB bulb and a 60w ceramic emitter at night. We have attempted to switch his diet to hay and cactus pads and other various healthy greens. So far he just curls up to sleep on his hay, and isn't big on eating. We have had most success with rehydrated ZooMed pellets. His box stays about 75* during the day, sometimes as high as 80, and around 70* at night. His hygrometer in his hide we try to keep between 40-50%. He is bathed in luke warm water for about 10 minutes once a week, and misted daily when we mist his substrate.

He rarely brings himself out of his hide. He's not eating what I feel is any significant amount of food. If we force him out of his hide he will cruise around the room for a bit before hiding again. His shell has gotten brighter, and he digs a lot, but we never see him coming out of his hide to come eat or drink. He only eats after we drag him out of his hide. I know nothing about how he lived in his old home, except for the fact that the previous owner said he wouldn't hear or see the tortoise for days at a time so he would check to see if he was alive every few days.

What should I do/change, etc. I want to do right by this guy. He's in a small tortoise box right now, but that will be changed come spring. Hopefully not too much longer.

Hello and welcome to the forum.

There is all sorts of old, out-dated, incorrect info out there in the world. I think it is awesome that you've decide to give this guy a better home, but it sounds like you've found some of the old info, which is not all bad, but there is room for improvement.

Here is the current and correct care info:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

I'll address each thing in order:
1. Coir is okay, but sand is not. Sand is a big impaction risk and possible skin and eye irritant. The best substrate for them is a 3-5" layer of fine grade orchid bark. This is available at any garden center in bulk bags for cheap.
2. Mine all eat the peat moss, so when his appetite picks back up, you will likely have to remove it.
3. Hay is more for older larger sulcatas. Smaller ones will not usually eat it unless its introduced correctly over time. Here is that list of foods that leigti mentioned: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/
4. YOUR MAIN PROBLEM: Temperatures. He needs it warmer. This is a tropical species and it does not get cold where they are from down in their burrows at night. The temperature should not drop below 80 anywhere in his enclosure day or night, and there need to be a large basking area that reaches 100 degrees all day at tortoise shell height. You'll need to add another CHE, or get a larger wattage one.
5. They do best at the higher humidities that simulate the African monsoon season that they hatch into. Shoot for around 80% humidity.
6. Numbers 4 and 5 will be very difficult to accomplish in your current enclosure with its open top. All the warm humid air just rises up and into the room. A large closed chamber will make it easiest for you to achieve the needed temps and humidity. Like this:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/closed-chambers.32333/
7. He should be warm water soaked every day or every other for the next few weeks. After that you can taper it down to a couple of times a week.
8. You mentioned him cruising around the room. This is a very dangerous practice and I discourage it. They frequently end up injured, impacted or dead and EVERY single person who does this proclaims how safe they made it and how carefully they watched their tortoise and how nothing could happen. But it DOES happen. I see it all the time. Best to keep them in their enclosure.
9. Given number 8, they NEED a large enclosure with lots of room to move around. Locomotion helps move things along the digestive tract, similar to how it works in horses. When they sit still hiding for too much of the time, they can end up impacted. Soaks help with this. Long soaks of 45-60 minutes in the bathtub with warm water will get them moving and wake them up. The constant marching around is good exercise and the warm water will get their system up and running. Refrsh the water as needed and make sure t stays warm.

The two biggest mistakes people make with these guys is not keeping them warm enough and keeping them in enclosures that are too small. Sounds like you've got both of these factors working against you.

Hope all this helps. Please feel free to question me/us on any of this. Happy to explain more if needed.