Keeping Sulcata's together

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rob morgan

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Hello every one,

I have another question anyone can help.

The breeder of my 3 month old sulcata (Mali) asked me if I would like another so I said yes. I picked up the new sulcata yesterday but they do not seem to be getting on with each other!
Mali new and then chases the new sulcata around and tries to bite him and then they both go into there hide.
I have now split them up but was wondering is there anyway of keeping them together as they used to be together when with the breeder, also when I picked the new one up all the babies looked perfectly happy together.

Please can anyone help?

Regards

Rob
 
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Maggie Cummings

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Are they the same size? Can Mali hurt the new one? He could just be playing the dominance game and showing the new tort who is the boss. As long as no damage can be done i would leave them alone to work it out.
 

Yvonne G

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It was different when they were at the breeder's. Mali didn't have a territory that he could call his own. Now that he has lived with you for a while, he has learned his boundaries and knows that he is king in his territory. If you have room, you should introduce them in a neutral territory. Place them together someplace outside of Mali's home world and let them get reacquainted. It is very possible for sulcatas to live together, even males, without fighting. But it looks like its not going to be easy for you.

Yvonne
 

rob morgan

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maggie3fan said:
Are they the same size? Can Mali hurt the new one? He could just be playing the dominance game and showing the new tort who is the boss. As long as no damage can be done i would leave them alone to work it out.

Hi Maggie,

Thank you for the reply, they are both the same size abount 2 to 3 inches but Mali is the smaller of the two! i will have to see what happens.

Regards

Rob

emysemys said:
It was different when they were at the breeder's. Mali didn't have a territory that he could call his own. Now that he has lived with you for a while, he has learned his boundaries and knows that he is king in his territory. If you have room, you should introduce them in a neutral territory. Place them together someplace outside of Mali's home world and let them get reacquainted. It is very possible for sulcatas to live together, even males, without fighting. But it looks like its not going to be easy for you.

Yvonne

Hi Yvonne,

Thanks for the reply, i dont want to stress them out. Is this normaly a hard thing to sort out?

It makes sense what your saying, do you think i should split them up?
I would like them to get on with each other because when they are older i want them to share the same space.

Regards

Rob
 

Yvonne G

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Each episode/tortoise is different. In my experience, the existing tortoise will try to get the new tortoise out of his territory by biting, ramming and trying to turn the other tortoise over. Once the dominance has been established it might be possible that they will live together peacefully. But sometimes the bullying continues and the new tortoise won't eat and just slowly dies. (because he has no way to get out of the territory)

Yvonne
 

rob morgan

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emysemys said:
Each episode/tortoise is different. In my experience, the existing tortoise will try to get the new tortoise out of his territory by biting, ramming and trying to turn the other tortoise over. Once the dominance has been established it might be possible that they will live together peacefully. But sometimes the bullying continues and the new tortoise won't eat and just slowly dies. (because he has no way to get out of the territory)

Yvonne

Hi Yvonne, if things dont change in the next two days i will split them up.

Thanks for your help.

Regards

Rob
 

tortoisenerd

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I have an opinion similar to Maggie and Yvonne above. I would have Mali stay in the original enclosure, a new enclosure for the new tort (name?), and a third enclosure for them to be introduced to each other. I would only leave them together with supervision for short periods of time in the neutral territory. Observe and see how things go. I would let them work it out as long as blood was not being drawn...

Make sure there are several hides in the neutral enclosure. if you feed them in there during the honeymoon period, than have two separate dishes on different sides.

I would see how things go in the next couple weeks, but if you are dead set on keeping them together and they cannot do so peacefully, you will have to decide to "return" the new tort, or be prepared to always have two separate enclosures. How much space do you have for them as adults? An owner with multiple torts should always plan for the worst with each tort getting to the maximum possible size (a large male), and each tort needing their own enclosure. If things work out not as bad as the worst case scenario, then great. If not, then you've been prepared.

Best wishes. Keep us updated!
 

rob morgan

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tortoisenerd said:
I have an opinion similar to Maggie and Yvonne above. I would have Mali stay in the original enclosure, a new enclosure for the new tort (name?), and a third enclosure for them to be introduced to each other. I would only leave them together with supervision for short periods of time in the neutral territory. Observe and see how things go. I would let them work it out as long as blood was not being drawn...

Make sure there are several hides in the neutral enclosure. if you feed them in there during the honeymoon period, than have two separate dishes on different sides.

I would see how things go in the next couple weeks, but if you are dead set on keeping them together and they cannot do so peacefully, you will have to decide to "return" the new tort, or be prepared to always have two separate enclosures. How much space do you have for them as adults? An owner with multiple torts should always plan for the worst with each tort getting to the maximum possible size (a large male), and each tort needing their own enclosure. If things work out not as bad as the worst case scenario, then great. If not, then you've been prepared.

Best wishes. Keep us updated!

Hi Kate,

When I got home last night they were both basking under the heat lamp together, and when I put some food in they both went strait for the food. This is the first time I have seen the new tortoise eat (Chad).
I then gave them a bath and then returned them to the tortoise table, I sat for 4 hours monitoring them and they were perfectly fine. I don’t understand how it’s gone from one thing to another in one day!
I suppose it could all change again.

Regards

Rob
 
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Maggie Cummings

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No it won't change now...they just had to get the pecking order straight...just like I said, it was a dominance thing and now it's set and they will be fine! Just make sure that they are both eating every time you feed for a while. They can do a mental bullying and that's what Yvonne was saying that one stops eating and slowly dies, so you won't see mental bullying you just have to make sure they both are eating every time you feed for a few days...if they both are eating then there is no mental bullying going on and they'll do fine...
 

rob morgan

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maggie3fan said:
No it won't change now...they just had to get the pecking order straight...just like I said, it was a dominance thing and now it's set and they will be fine! Just make sure that they are both eating every time you feed for a while. They can do a mental bullying and that's what Yvonne was saying that one stops eating and slowly dies, so you won't see mental bullying you just have to make sure they both are eating every time you feed for a few days...if they both are eating then there is no mental bullying going on and they'll do fine...

Hi Maggie,

How does mental bulling work in tortoises?

Also i would just like to say thank you to yourself, Yvonne and everyone who has helped over the past few days.

Regards

Rob
 

Yvonne G

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Mental bullying is the dominant tortoise talking to the submissive tortoise mentally. They send out vibes or whatever. The dominant tortoise tells the submissive tortoise to get out of the territory...and since its a closed habitat, the submissive tortoise has no way to "get out of the territory." It might be a look, it might be mental telepathy, who knows. But it truly does happen. If you notice the more submissive tortoise become less active and loses his appetite, you can rest assured he is being told by the other tortoise to get out of the territory.

Yvonne
 
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