Leopard behavior..

[Tony the tank]

Well as some have read I added a couple of leopards to the herd... And have some questions...

The leopards in question are babcocki and around 5yrs old both males.... The smaller of the two... Gets up eats basks walks around all day until about 6pm when lights start to dim...The other male..The larger of the two.. Doesn't move from his hide..Untill I pull him out ..usually around 1pm... Then he eats walks around for a few hrs and back into his hide...If I pull him out again he does the same thing... He doesn't bask...so the question is would this be considered normal?? Or is this something I should be concerned about...Not sure if I should write it off as new surrounding and getting acclimated .... Or if he is feeling poorly..

Thoughts..Opinions?

 

[Laura]

does he eat well? Probably just shyer and adjusting..

 

[Neal]

From your description I can't see anything that would be a great cause for concern. Some just aren't as active as others. Part of this behavior might be related to the season, I know mine are certainly not as active during the winter. Once it warms up and you are able to get them outside, I am sure you will see a behavior change. Since he's new to you and you don't really know what his normal behavior is like, I would still keep a close eye on him.

 

[Tony the tank]

Laura , Neal.. He eats but not as much as his smaller sibling... If I hold a piece of romaine in front of him he will attack it voraciously... For like 2 minutes then walks away... Unlike his smaller sibling who just keeps eating.....

Also should I be pulling him out of his hide to get him to eat or should I just leave him alone...

Could there be bullying among leopards??
There are no signs of fighting... They seem to basically ignore each other

 

[Neal]

That's how some are. Not just leopards, but other tortoises as well. Some are big eaters and some are not.

Something to consider: When you feed him, is he able to see you? He could be confused from the new environment. I would recommend placing him in front of his food and placing yourself in a position so he can't really see you, but you can see him. Or just completely walk away and check on him every few minutes and see if he eats more food.

If he doesn't come out of his hide when it's time to eat, I would pull him from the hide if I were you. Otherwise I would leave him alone.

Unless you get a female in there with them, I can't imagine there is going to be any type of bullying going on. And as long as you have a good amount of space in your enclosure and plenty of good hiding spots, my opinion on the matter is that bullying should not be a concern. Some speak of mental bullying, I for one don't consider it an issue with tortoises, but I'm sure someone else who does can give you an explanation on what to look for.

 

[Tony the tank]

Thanks Neal..I pulled him out and soaked him again...a little sand in the mix but there was a regular bowel movement...He was placed back into the enclosure were he paced for a while then really chowed down...after which he went back into the hide and I haven't seen him since....

So for know I will let him be....

Thanks again everyone..appreciate the help..

 

[ascott]

Some speak of mental bullying, I for one don't consider it an issue with tortoises,

I apologize ahead of time Neal I am under the assumption that with your tortoise you have not experienced what happens when this type of bullying occurs...along with the outright gladiator moves that occur with tortoise (more times it happens than not)...albeit, there are a few of the tortoise species that bullying is not as grave an issue. However, there are more tortoise species that this occurs than species that it does not.

Tortoise can absolutely kill one another. It is more a male tortoise behavior than female...but females can cause enough ramming damage, biting damage that stress is brought on and the stress can prove fatal.

This is one of the subjects that I happily agree to disagree on Neal.....again, there are no hard feelings being felt with the post here, promise....just compelled to reinforce that yes, indeed bullying can and does happen and it can and does prove fatal in alot of cases....

 

[Neal]

Actually I do believe we are in agreement. PHYSICAL bullying, which is what you described I believe, can and does exist for sure. I grew up raising box turtles, and anyone who has kept them know they can be pretty aggressive, even in my leopards and stars I see this. So I understand the physical aspect of bullying...just not so much the mental as a few here have mentioned.

 

[ascott]

Let me start off with a big ole

Neal, I believe that the stress caused by mental bullying is very real. Does it happen to every tortoise housed with other tortoise.....no, this I do not believe.

I do know that a pair of tortoise (whether be it male/male or female/female or even male/female) is a tricky thing. I have seen more times that not---if you have either a much smaller tortoise begin to emerge and its housemate begin to grow much more rapidly or a tortoise that hides all of the time and its housemate is exact opposite then these are possible signs of mental (quiet) bullying----there are many things that occur that we as humans would not key into right at first glance---it is a feeling, a sense that happens....

I know that if I am dealing with two dogs (this is simply an example) and they are housed together....live together for length of time----if there is an issue that is occuring you (or I can) have a sudden sense if something is going to spark off-----even if they are not making any outward obvious motion....

Reptiles will do the same thing, but in the version of a tortoise bullying, you will see the extreme size difference begin, you will see the extreme behavior of the tortoise.

If you see these signs you can create two equal environments and in a rather short period of time you will generally see the smaller or passive tortoise change....again, this is my life experience as well as I have had this same shared with me a variety of times....

Again, I ABSOLUTELY am not trying to convince you to believe as I do, but rather compelled to also inform that yes, this does happen so if someone perhaps finds this to be happening they can certainly try to confirm if it is or not without discarding it as something that does not happen with tortoise....you know?

Now finishing this post as I started it, with a big ole

 

[Neal]

Perhaps I have a different perception of what mental bullying is vs. physical bullying than you and others here, but no need to take it any farther. Agree to disagree, but I do appreciate your insight.

 

[ascott]

Neal, DITTO....