Leopard Males NOT Breeding

[Boydleon]

Hello....this is my first post but ive been following along and learning from yall for awhile.

I live in Arizona and have 14 Leopards. 6 Male 8 Female....

My question. Is it abnormal that I have never seen my torts breeding?

My brother has a 1 Male 2 Fenale group of Sulcatas that seem to never stop!

I have received a few eggs over past few months and have them in soil but I have little faith in them really hatching because they were dropped ablove ground.

I have several males and females in the 9"-12" range.

My yard is not huge but it is not small either. theres plenty of space for all 14. They all have free roam of the entire yard and get along fine. Ive never seen any be hostile towards others. There are a few bushes they like to sleep in, a home with heater and couple other small hides that they can seperate and rest in. Plenty of green grass, hibiscus, cactus and water for them to eat. I soak weekly and for the most part they are very social. (Save 1 or 2)

Anyways.....just didnt know if this was normal for male Leopards to not be as active as Sulcatas or am I doing something wrong??


Any thoughts would be appreciated....

Thanks in advance!

 

[Neal]

Doesn't seem normal to me.

How long have you had them?

What size are your leopards, and how do the males compare in size to your females?

 

[Boydleon]

 

[Boydleon]

Neal-

Ive had most of these personally less than a year. I adopted them in groups from 4-5 reputable owners before me.

 

[Neal]

Guessing here, but there are a lot of factors to consider:

I am pretty sure I can make out 5 of your 6 males in the picture above. My first thought is that your males are not mature enough yet. While they may be large enough to show interest and experiment, they don't appear to be "mating size".

Stress could be a factor with that many in one group. I've never had that many in one set-up, but my leopard groups do well with a 1:1 ratio (currently I have 2:2).

Mating primarily occurs in the spring and goes through summer. Mine have stopped mating completely and have for about a month. It could be a timing thing.

Since they're relatively new to you and came from different owners, some "adjusting stress" could be at work from moving them from one place to another.

It's hard to nail it down, but all else considered, I don't think you have much to worry about just yet.

 

[Neal]

Welcome to the forum by the way. Good to see another AZ leopard owner.

 

[Boydleon]

Thanks Neal. Ultimately Im not too worried, just didnt know if it was necessarily normal behavior. I would rather not seperate them if I dont need to. I enjoy watching them wander about the yard as they please.

 

[Neal]

Yeah, now that they are all together I would keep them like that if I were you. If there continues to be no breeding activity this next year then I would start trying different things.

What are your plans for them over winter?

 

[Boydleon]

I have a block structure about 5x10 with a heater in it. Ive been trying to train them to go in at night but a few still prefer to leave and go back under the bushes or to other spots.

If the nights are too cold ill bring them into the garage.

 

[Neal]

Cool, I'm sure others along with myself would enjoy pictures of your block structure.

 

[Boydleon]

Its nothing special. There will be a more permanent one after we move in Springtime, but its basically a few courses of cinder block with a galvanized lid. Ive got one Ceramic heater in there now and will add more and possibly heating pads as the weather cools.

The new one will look more like a large playhouse. Hopefully with an incubator full of eggs in the top half. (atleast at some point)

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

Hello

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi, and welcome to the Forum.

A few years ago, before I slimmed down my group, I had several males. Never saw any fighting. Got lots of eggs. But my tortoises were all much closer to full grown than yours.

Now I have a 1.2 group of babcocks, and the male is pretty small compared to the females. But he's 10 years old and I get lots of eggs from the females...eggs that hatch out lots of babies; darned near 100% hatch rate.

So I'm guessing that your males aren't mature enough yet.

One trick that I've used before with the Manouria group is to separate out the males for a season, then put them back with the females in the Spring. I've had good success with that too.

 

[Boydleon]

Thanks Yvonne.

Funny....I had that same thought and seperated my males with a short fence for couple weeks. If by spring there isnt much signs of interest I may do it again for a month or so.

 

[Tom]

I think Neal touched on this, but I find that tortoises don't like it when they are moved to a new and unfamiliar location. I've seen adjustment periods of years sometimes.

That coupled with the smaller size of some of yours is probably the biggest factor here. I'll bet you will be wading in eggs in two or three years. Feed them well, keep them warm in winter and keep them well hydrated and you'll see eggs soon enough.

Eggs found on the surface are often the product of a young female laying for the first time. I find that some tortoises drop a few duds on the surface during a process I call "priming the pump". Their reproductive organs are gearing up for a lifetime of laying eggs and sometimes the first few just drop out on the surface. Frequently these surface dropped eggs will be broken open or have leathery shells. In late winter and early spring, I'll bet the females that laid those eggs will be digging nests and dropping fertile eggs.

Neal and I frequently disagree on this, but in my experience regular leopards are VERY mild mannered compared to sulcatas. In most cases sulcatas are big, bold, bulldozers and mature males are highly sexually active. All the regular leopard groups I've seen are much more peaceful and calm. These two species are on opposite ends of the personality spectrum. I say this based on 24 years of keeping and raising all ages of both species.

 

[Boydleon]

I think Neal touched on this, but I find that tortoises don't like it when they are moved to a new and unfamiliar location. I've seen adjustment periods of years sometimes.

That coupled with the smaller size of some of yours is probably the biggest factor here. I'll bet you will be wading in eggs in two or three years. Feed them well, keep them warm in winter and keep them well hydrated and you'll see eggs soon enough.

Eggs found on the surface are often the product of a young female laying for the first time. I find that some tortoises drop a few duds on the surface during a process I call "priming the pump". Their reproductive organs are gearing up for a lifetime of laying eggs and sometimes the first few just drop out on the surface. Frequently these surface dropped eggs will be broken open or have leathery shells. In late winter and early spring, I'll bet the females that laid those eggs will be digging nests and dropping fertile eggs.

Neal and I frequently disagree on this, but in my experience regular leopards are VERY mild mannered compared to sulcatas. In most cases sulcatas are big, bold, bulldozers and mature males are highly sexually active. All the regular leopard groups I've seen are much more peaceful and calm. These two species are on opposite ends of the personality spectrum. I say this based on 24 years of keeping and raising all ages of both species.

Thanks Tom. I appreciate the comment.

 

[Tom]

I've never kept them in groups that large either and I'm very curious what your results will be over the next few years. I hope you'll stick around and keep us posted.

I keep all South Africans and they are much different behaviorally. I can't keep any of my mature males together. They instantly go to ramming and trying to kill each other. I may use this tendency to get more breeding vigor in the future. I may intentionally let them have a little battle time and see if it increases breeding. Many keepers report that this works with other species. They way they behave now, I think I might not even need to do this...

Sorry. Off topic for your thread...

 

[Boydleon]

Youll see me around. Im pretty quiet but ill chime in here and there. I really want them to be able to free roam and try to avoid splitting up into pens. Well see tho...

 

[TerrapinStation]

Good looking crew! hopefully the Pros are right on here and you will have more babies than you know what to do with in a year or so after they settle in and get comfortable.

Congratulations and best of luck

 

[AnimalLady]

Hello and welcome!