Leopard size and weight too small?

[superjet86]

Hello,

My leopard Hank is about 3yo and I just weighed him and hes only 4.2oz. I cant figure out why hes not growing as quickly as i thought he would have. He eats almost every day and its a diet of zoo med grassland... which is all good grasses and hays with no added "bad stuff". he will get fresh romaine and kollard greens as well. I have tank at about 83* and humidity is at 23%. he has good uvb and places to hide as you can see in the pics.

any suggestions.... personal experiences.... advise would be helpful.

also we had a furnace problem a week ago and it got cold and he will be going to the vet on monday for a respiratory infection....i bet

thanks
Matt

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Matt:

I think you're right to be worried. He has some strange, uneven growth. Notice how much new growth space there is between the bottom scutes and the next group of scutes upwards, then not nearly the same kind of growth in between the scutes on the rest of the carapace.

I think he would benefit from a different style habitat. It would be easier to keep a tub moister. So far your baby is not pyramiding, but that's because he's growing so slowly.

Change his diet to mainly greens with the manufactured food as a supplement.

What is the temperature? It is almost impossible to heat up a cage to the correct temperature. He needs to be able to get up to at LEAST 80 degrees.

Are you using a UVB light?

So, new moister environment, more greens and less Zoo Med Grassland, temperatures at 100+ under the light with it going down to 80 away from the light...and I think you'll see a remarkable difference in his growth.

 

[superjet86]

As stated the tank stays at 85 degrees and has basking spots. I was always told less humidity the better. That's why I chose an open enclosure. As far as greens... What should I be feeding and where can I find them during winter? That was my biggest struggle is that krogar does not have that kind of stuff. I was told to feed hays and grass which is what is in the zoo med formula.

 

[Edna]

My leopard youngsters are eating anything we can find at the grocery store. I buy (and they love) mustard greens, kale, romaine, sunflower sprouts, and arugula. My grocery store also usually has collard greens and various leaf lettuces and I just aim for a palatable variety of greens. I also feed Mazuri, a couple of soaked pellets a couple of times a week. I am following Tom's caresheet for sulcata babies including high humidity. Mine are 5 ounces at 4 1/2-5 months old.

 

[Badgemash]

Hi Matt,

We were also told when we first got our leopards that the humidity should be kept low and they should eat grass and hay, fortunately we also discovered the forum. Tom has been doing some excellent research into humidity and shell growth with both leopards and sulcatas, and I've had great success with my babies by stealing his methods (thanks Tom!). Ours won't touch hay (even when it has been rehydrated) but they're doing very well on an assortment of greens. I know some are hard to find (like dandelion greens) or expensive (like endive) but there are a lot of greens that are good (I tend to rotate through whatever is on sale), and there are some good tips on the forum about growing your own.

I agree with Yvonne about the set-up, you'll lose a lot of humidity and heat through the sides. I would suggest you try and get the temps up to 100 in the basking area and 80 in the cool area.

-Devon

 

[yagyujubei]

What are you doing for extra calcium? He is growing oddly, and some areas have not grown at all. I would dust all his food with calcium carbonate, and provide a cuttle bone. Are you sure about his age?

---

I wouls also switch to Mazuri for awhile.

 

[Robert]

Are you using a mercury vapor bulb, or are you relying on that window for UVB? Also, how often are you soaking him? Are you misting him and his substrate?

What type of thermometer are you using to test your temps? For my leopard I have a variant from roughly 102 to 75. (But bear in mind my leopard is over 9 lbs and can tolerate the 75 end of the variant.) If your "hottest" spot is only 85, then I would definitely recommend bumping it up a bit.

Does he ever climb into that water dish and self soak? I used to use that style of dish but I changed to a shallow terra cotta dish, keeping it even with the substrate. (Thanks Tom!) My leopard loves it for drinking and soaking. I prefer it over the kind you have with the high sides. The terra cotta dishes are only a few bucks and may be worth a try.

I also agree with the suggestion about calcium +D3.


Good luck with the vet and the RI.

Keep us posted.

Rob

 

[superjet86]

I am using a merc vapor bulb and its well above 85 in his basking spot. I use a digital thermo and humidity gauge from a wether station. He does go in the water and I soak him like once a week.

 

[Robert]

Ok great. What is the temperature in his basking spot?

 

[superjet86]

I do suppliment here and terenwith calcium and d3.

How old are hatchlings normally when they are ready to be sold? Hes at lease 2yo

 

[coreyc]

How much does he eat a day? How old is your MVB?

 

[Tom]

My guesses, based on the info here are:

1. He's too dry. He needs daily soaks and shell spraying as well as dampening that substrate. He needs a proper humid hide box to retreat to as well. All that stuff about keeping baby leopards dry is just plain wrong and it has been wrong for all the decades that we have been promoting it. If you decide to add all this moisture, watch your temps as all that evaporation tends to cool things down a bit. Warm and humid is good. Cold and damp is very bad.

2. He needs A LOT more variety in the diet. The Zoo-Med stuff is good as a small part of a balanced diet, but not as his main food source (Don't get me wrong, I love ZooMed and feed that diet to mine too.). Mazuri mixed in with some greens two or three times a week would really help him too.

3. Sunshine whenever the weather permits will help tremendously with proper shell formation.

Here's how I'm keeping my leopards:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-How-To-Raise-Sulcata-Hatchlings-and-Babies

As was mentioned above, lots of people are having success following it to one degree or another. If you don't want to go totally wild with all the wetness, then at least get him a humid hide box. I bet he spends a lot of time in it.

For further reading I suggest Richard and Jerry Fife's Leopard Tortoise book. It is one of the best tortoise books I've ever read. You can find it here:
http://ivorytortoise.com/

Just scroll down. Its toward the bottom of the page on the left. Its only $15 shipped. Well worth every penny.

 

[superjet86]

How do you make a humid hide box?

 

[Badgemash]

How do you make a humid hide box?

I think I can see one of those half log hides in your picture, the easiest thing would be to get a big clump of sphagnum-type moss, wet it, squeeze out the excess water and stuff it in the hide. He can burrow into it and stay moist. I use the orchid moss from home depot, it's much cheaper than the petco stuff, just make sure to pull out any little twigs. Also make sure he stays nice and warm inside the hide to avoid any respiratory complications.

-Devon