Leopard tortoise table heat

[Joeegould]

Hi all,

the next few days in uk are going to be really hot. It’s 9:30 am and my tortoises hiding area in the shade is already 25 celsius without the basking light (other end of table), obviously as the day goes on and when I turn the basking light on the hiding spot could hit 30 Celsius in the shade. My tortoise is 9 months old and I’m a bit concerned about how hot my open top table is. There is a lot of mixed Info on heating. As far as can work out.
shade spot 22-24 celsius
basking spot 28-32 celsius
night 22-24 Celsius

please help!
Thanks

 

[Srmcclure]

Hi all,

the next few days in uk are going to be really hot. It’s 9:30 am and my tortoises hiding area in the shade is already 25 celsius without the basking light (other end of table), obviously as the day goes on and when I turn the basking light on the hiding spot could hit 30 Celsius in the shade. My tortoise is 9 months old and I’m a bit concerned about how hot my open top table is. There is a lot of mixed Info on heating. As far as can work out.
shade spot 22-24 celsius
basking spot 28-32 celsius
night 22-24 Celsius

please help!
Thanks

That open top isn't good for your leopard... and your enclosure should never drop below 80 at any time. Not even at night or in the cool side. You need a closed chamber. That will allow you to better control your temperature and give you high humidity so your tortoise won't get sick and help prevent pyramiding.
I live in Oklahoma and our summers can easily get 105F and my closed chamber keeps everything at the right temps because its its own little environment basically. Cheaper on the electric bill to because my heat element isn't always staying on. It only kicks on a few times a day.
My leopard is about the same age as yours and is smooth as can be and very active because he has the proper sustained environment.

 

[Joeegould]

That open top isn't good for your leopard... and your enclosure should never drop below 80 at any time. Not even at night or in the cool side. You need a closed chamber. That will allow you to better control your temperature and give you high humidity so your tortoise won't get sick and help prevent pyramiding.
I live in Oklahoma and our summers can easily get 105F and my closed chamber keeps everything at the right temps because its its own little environment basically. Cheaper on the electric bill to because my heat element isn't always staying on. It only kicks on a few times a day.
My leopard is about the same age as yours and is smooth as can be and very active because he has the proper sustained environment.
View attachment 298218

Thanks for the reply can you take shot of your setup so I can see how yours looks. There is a lot of mixed info online

That open top isn't good for your leopard... and your enclosure should never drop below 80 at any time. Not even at night or in the cool side. You need a closed chamber. That will allow you to better control your temperature and give you high humidity so your tortoise won't get sick and help prevent pyramiding.
I live in Oklahoma and our summers can easily get 105F and my closed chamber keeps everything at the right temps because its its own little environment basically. Cheaper on the electric bill to because my heat element isn't always staying on. It only kicks on a few times a day.
My leopard is about the same age as yours and is smooth as can be and very active because he has the proper sustained environment.
View attachment 298218

thats great thanks for your reply, could you send a photo of your setup so I can see how it’s done. Also why is there plenty of info online saying it can be in an open top if it needs to be enclosed.

thanks

 

[Srmcclure]

Thanks for the reply can you take shot of your setup so I can see how yours looks. There is a lot of mixed info online

thats great thanks for your reply, could you send a photo of your setup so I can see how it’s done. Also why is there plenty of info online saying it can be in an open top if it needs to be enclosed.

thanks

Because all of that info is the old way to keep tortoises and there aren't very many people that specialize in them since there aren't any specific courses for it in vet school or anything like that. This information has come from someone who has done side-by-side comparisons for 30 years and this is what he found the best way to raise leopards and sulcatas. I had an open top as well when I 1st started and my poor baby got an upper respiratory infection because there was no way to control his environment and what he was exposed to?
Now after switching hes a happy quickly growing boy lol

There are tons of threads on ways to Make a cheap closed chamber, But mine is a grow tent that I ordered on Amazon and it is 4' by 2'.All I really had to do was add A tarp inside for a liner and another one outside just because I'm paranoid lol. Me and a few other members in here use these because they are cheap and really easy to work with.
Also, I hate to be the Bearer of bad news, but I think you'll need all new lights and heat source too. It looks like you looked online and copied what all the old info was. I did the same thing... i wish ppl would expand their way of thinking about tortoises....?

 

[Joeegould]

Because all of that info is the old way to keep tortoises and there aren't very many people that specialize in them since there aren't any specific courses for it in vet school or anything like that. This information has come from someone who has done side-by-side comparisons for 30 years and this is what he found the best way to raise leopards and sulcatas. I had an open top as well when I 1st started and my poor baby got an upper respiratory infection because there was no way to control his environment and what he was exposed to?
Now after switching hes a happy quickly growing boy lol
View attachment 298219View attachment 298220
There are tons of threads on ways to Make a cheap closed chamber, But mine is a grow tent that I ordered on Amazon and it is 4' by 2'.All I really had to do was add A tarp inside for a liner and another one outside just because I'm paranoid lol. Me and a few other members in here use these because they are cheap and really easy to work with.
Also, I hate to be the Bearer of bad news, but I think you'll need all new lights and heat source too. It looks like you looked online and copied what all the old info was. I did the same thing... i wish ppl would expand their way of thinking about tortoises....?

Thank you again, what sort of age would you no longer need this amount of humidity? Obviously you can’t fit a fully grown Leo into this. There is so much mixed Info on everything online I don’t know what to believe.

 

[Joeegould]

Thank you again, what sort of age would you no longer need this amount of humidity? Obviously you can’t fit a fully grown Leo into this. There is so much mixed Info on everything online I don’t know what to believe.

If you know of any care sheet I would like to know temps, humidity, size, so on....

 

[Srmcclure]

I totally understand all the confusion. I was the same way. Here is the caresheet.

The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. Babies hatch during the...

www.tortoiseforum.org

I would follow this over ANYTHING else. After I followed this, I havent had any issues at all! Ghido has been so happy and healthy and the difference was night and day after he was settled into the new routine. And I think for a few years atleast. It just depends really on how long it takes. Larger tortoises are able to handle less ideal conditions.

 

[Tom]

Hi all,

the next few days in uk are going to be really hot. It’s 9:30 am and my tortoises hiding area in the shade is already 25 celsius without the basking light (other end of table), obviously as the day goes on and when I turn the basking light on the hiding spot could hit 30 Celsius in the shade. My tortoise is 9 months old and I’m a bit concerned about how hot my open top table is. There is a lot of mixed Info on heating. As far as can work out.
shade spot 22-24 celsius
basking spot 28-32 celsius
night 22-24 Celsius

please help!
Thanks

Unfortunately the old wrong info out there persists. 30 is a nice minimum day time temp. If ambient starts getting over 35ish, then you can shut the bulbs off, but I just don't see that happening in the UK in an indoor enclosure. Your tortoise needs night heat. It should never drop below 26-27 day or night for this warmth loving species. The basking area directly under the bulb should be around 36-37.

You'll need to get a closed chamber, and all of that substrate should be changed out immediately. Shavings are not a suitable tortoise substrate, and that Pets-at-Home stuff with the limestone bits is a terrible idea. Why would you want a tortoise to eat sandy substrate to satisfy its calcium cravings? That is just stupid.

Your tortoise needs warmth and humidity to grow correctly. Every day that you keep it in those dry conditions it will pyramid worse and worse. How long to house the tortoise that way? Pyramiding is caused by growth in conditions that are too dry. If the tortoise is growing, it needs humidity. Overly dry conditions can be caused by using open topped enclosures, but can also happen when a tortoise is in a cool enclosure and needs to sit under a desiccating bulb all day to try and warm up. A warm ambient inside a large closed chamber will encourage less basking. You can house a leopard in a large closed chamber for its whole life. You'll just need a really large chamber, like a whole room, when the tortoise is an adult.

Your "hot" temperatures are just barely approaching ideal for this species. My leopards drop to 27 at night and ambient temps away from the basking bulbs climb to 33-34 during the heat of the day. It gets hot in Africa. You do not have a cold weather species.

 

[Srmcclure]

Tom is the expert who wrote that amazing caresheet! Can't say enough good things Tom!

 

[Joeegould]

Unfortunately the old wrong info out there persists. 30 is a nice minimum day time temp. If ambient starts getting over 35ish, then you can shut the bulbs off, but I just don't see that happening in the UK in an indoor enclosure. Your tortoise needs night heat. It should never drop below 26-27 day or night for this warmth loving species. The basking area directly under the bulb should be around 36-37.

You'll need to get a closed chamber, and all of that substrate should be changed out immediately. Shavings are not a suitable tortoise substrate, and that Pets-at-Home stuff with the limestone bits is a terrible idea. Why would you want a tortoise to eat sandy substrate to satisfy its calcium cravings? That is just stupid.

Your tortoise needs warmth and humidity to grow correctly. Every day that you keep it in those dry conditions it will pyramid worse and worse. How long to house the tortoise that way? Pyramiding is caused by growth in conditions that are too dry. If the tortoise is growing, it needs humidity. Overly dry conditions can be caused by using open topped enclosures, but can also happen when a tortoise is in a cool enclosure and needs to sit under a desiccating bulb all day to try and warm up. A warm ambient inside a large closed chamber will encourage less basking. You can house a leopard in a large closed chamber for its whole life. You'll just need a really large chamber, like a whole room, when the tortoise is an adult.

Your "hot" temperatures are just barely approaching ideal for this species. My leopards drop to 27 at night and ambient temps away from the basking bulbs climb to 33-34 during the heat of the day. It gets hot in Africa. You do not have a cold weather species.

i appreciate all the help we have had the leapord tortoise 5 days now. he/she has maybe Only basked for an hour or two in that time. i don’t see the temp being that far off unless there is another reason for not basking.

 

[Srmcclure]

i appreciate all the help we have had the leapord tortoise 5 days now. he/she has maybe Only basked for an hour or two in that time. i don’t see the temp being that far off unless there is another reason for not basking.

She could also be stressed from the new enclosure since you haven't had it very long on top of the setup not being right. Tortoise don't like change. Even when its for the better haha

 

[Joeegould]

Because all of that info is the old way to keep tortoises and there aren't very many people that specialize in them since there aren't any specific courses for it in vet school or anything like that. This information has come from someone who has done side-by-side comparisons for 30 years and this is what he found the best way to raise leopards and sulcatas. I had an open top as well when I 1st started and my poor baby got an upper respiratory infection because there was no way to control his environment and what he was exposed to?
Now after switching hes a happy quickly growing boy lol
View attachment 298219View attachment 298220
There are tons of threads on ways to Make a cheap closed chamber, But mine is a grow tent that I ordered on Amazon and it is 4' by 2'.All I really had to do was add A tarp inside for a liner and another one outside just because I'm paranoid lol. Me and a few other members in here use these because they are cheap and really easy to work with.
Also, I hate to be the Bearer of bad news, but I think you'll need all new lights and heat source too. It looks like you looked online and copied what all the old info was. I did the same thing... i wish ppl would expand their way of thinking about tortoises....?

Hey were working on buying the viv and everything in the info you sent. Little confused about heat and light what are the items you use in your photos that would really help.
thanks

 

[Srmcclure]

Hey were working on buying the viv and everything in the info you sent. Little confused about heat and light what are the items you use in your photos that would really help.
thanks

Oh cool! Just make sure there is no screen top ? that was my issue haha

And sure, in the back corner I have my 45 watt incandescent flood bulb for my basking area( you may need a 65 depending on time of year or weather) and that is on a rheostat so I can dim the wattage if needed if it gets too hot, but it doesn't turn the 'sun' off, the strip is a HO uvb strip light that doesn't cause irritation to your torts eyes and gives out more uvb, and in the middle I have a RHP mounted to the top to control ambient temps on a thermostat. You can also use a che for heat. I put mine in the middle and the thermostat probe in a far corner so you know the whole enclosure is no less than 80. The light in the left corner is just an led for brightness and totally optional in my setup. Heres a better pic of the harware.
Here is my redfoots setup only so you can see the che in the middle. I haven't gotten her a rhp yet. She'll be getting a much bigger setup soon. This was just so I could get her out of the enclosure she came with quickly since it was not right at all.