Leopards time

[NikH]

Well, why not raise 5 baby leopards? As im already raising 4 sulcatas i can and 5 leopards this is really important project for me as in my country majoriti of people think that leos with pyramiding are normal and that they cant be smooth, well closed chamber and spot on husbandry will prove them wrong. Anyway here are they

 

[wellington]

Very cute! One of my fave
Just Incase you didn't know. Be sure to not use a mercury or halogen or spot bulb. They will still cause pyramiding even in the highest of humidity.
Keep us posted on their growth and how those you're proven wrong are handling how a leopard is suppose to look.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Oh yeah, the leopards here in Finland look horrible too!

 

[wellington]

Oh yeah, the leopards here in Finland look horrible too!

Hey, any leopard is beautiful

 

[NikH]

Very cute! One of my fave
Just Incase you didn't know. Be sure to not use a mercury or halogen or spot bulb. They will still cause pyramiding even in the highest of humidity.
Keep us posted on their growth and how those you're proven wrong are handling how a leopard is suppose to look.

Yes yes, im following all instruction from this forum as i have for my 12y old sulcata and he is perfectly smooth

 

[Ink]

Beautiful leopards. Congratulations

 

[NikH]

Oh yeah, the leopards here in Finland look horrible too!

Majoriti european countrys have same problem, just like indian star and other similar tortoises, pyramiding at finest

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Hey, any leopard is beautiful

I meant that I feel bad for them when I see one

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Majoriti european countrys have same problem, just like indian star and other similar tortoises, pyramiding at finest

I feel like part of the problem is that at least here in Finland tortoises have traditionally been wild caught adults, usually from the testudo species. But when you get a hatchling, it just can't withstand the same abuse people are used to putting their tortoises through here... It is just really sad

 

[wellington]

I feel like part of the problem is that at least here in Finland tortoises have traditionally been wild caught adults, usually from the testudo species. But when you get a hatchling, it just can't withstand the same abuse people are used to putting their tortoises through here... It is just really sad

Have to remember. Not too long ago, about 13 years or so. We, on the forum knew about closed chamber, high humidity. However, we were using the MVB as at that time we were all fooled into it being the best uvb out there. Many switched from the fluorescent to the MVB. I don't remember how many years the MVB was recommended to everyone, until Tom figured out they were not good and still caused pyramiding. Back in those days, a lot of other countries were still raising hot and dry and likely using the MVB. There were quite a few arguments even on here about the high humidity not needed and would cause tortoises to get sick. Tom had many battles trying to prove hot and humid in closed chamber was the way.
The tortoise in my profile was sold to me under the instructions of hot and dry, MVB. 4-5 months later I found this forum. Changed things, except the MVB, that was still the best at that time. My leopard is very pyramided. By the time the MVB was discovered as also a cause of pyramiding, it was too late for mine. Once they are started wrong, even for a small amount of time, it's hard to undo.
Other countries were far behind us, the USA and still to this day, all the bad info is still being passed on all over even in the US.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Have to remember. Not too long ago, about 13 years or so. We, on the forum knew about closed chamber, high humidity. However, we were using the MVB as at that time we were all fooled into it being the best uvb out there. Many switched from the fluorescent to the MVB. I don't remember how many years the MVB was recommended to everyone, until Tom figured out they were not good and still caused pyramiding. Back in those days, a lot of other countries were still raising hot and dry and likely using the MVB. There were quite a few arguments even on here about the high humidity not needed and would cause tortoises to get sick. Tom had many battles trying to prove hot and humid in closed chamber was the way.
The tortoise in my profile was sold to me under the instructions of hot and dry, MVB. 4-5 months later I found this forum. Changed things, except the MVB, that was still the best at that time. My leopard is very pyramided. By the time the MVB was discovered as also a cause of pyramiding, it was too late for mine. Once they are started wrong, even for a small amount of time, it's hard to undo.
Other countries were far behind us, the USA and still to this day, all the bad info is still being passed on all over even in the US.

I think open top "terrariums" and infrared bulbs are the root cause here. My Russian came with one of those shallow glass tanks and a red bulb too. Especially with aquatic turtles brooder IRA bulbs are the norm here.

Here is a photo of a typical set up from the 2000s to 2010s I found on an old blog. The caption has a disclaimer to use a mix od peat and sand instead of 100% sand... Tube UVB was used, but the IRA lamps were very harsh and the substrate dry and dusty.

 

[wellington]

I think open top "terrariums" and infrared bulbs are the root cause here. My Russian came with one of those shallow glass tanks and a red bulb too. Especially with aquatic turtles brooder IRA bulbs are the norm here.

Here is a photo of a typical set up from the 2000s to 2010s I found on an old blog. The caption has a disclaimer to use a mix od peat and sand instead of 100% sand... Tube UVB was used, but the IRA lamps were very harsh and the substrate dry and dusty.

Exactly what I was saying. No closed chamber and wrong bulbs. However, never heard of the red bulbs being bad except for possibly making tortoises eat things they should. Yvonne always used the Red bulbs. Not sure if she ever stopped.
Only certain people on here recommended sand, and still fighting that. So many don't understand a small table or closed chamber isn't the same as the wild. So certain things shouldn't be used even if it might be available in the wild.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Exactly what I was saying. No closed chamber and wrong bulbs. However, never heard of the red bulbs being bad except for possibly making tortoises eat things they should. Yvonne always used the Red bulbs. Not sure if she ever stopped.
Only certain people on here recommended sand, and still fighting that. So many don't understand a small table or closed chamber isn't the same as the wild. So certain things shouldn't be used even if it might be available in the wild.

Yeah, and here on the forum I have learned that peat and moss aren't all that great either. Just wanted to point out that UVB tubes have been used here for long, but a red bulb is the norm for basking. At least some of them used here are spot bulbs and I have read that excess IRA dries the keratin too.

But the closed chamber and humidity seems to be an international problem.

 

[wellington]

Yeah, and here on the forum I have learned that peat and moss aren't all that great either. Just wanted to point out that UVB tubes have been used here for long, but a red bulb is the norm for basking. At least some of them used here are spot bulbs and I have read that excess IRA dries the keratin too.

But the closed chamber and humidity seems to be an international problem.

Yes, I forgot to add in the spot bulb. They too are pyramiding problems.