can i stop this pyramiding?

[J.P.]

pardon the title..i've read Tom's posts about stopping it so i know i can. but i think in the case of Tom's leopards, he has PREVENTED it, not stopped any pyramiding since what he started with were hatchlings w/o any pyramiding.

i do not have the opprtunity to start with perfect specimen, but i am determined to raise my leopards the right way.
they are 3-4 inches big and estimated to be a year old...now way to tell exactly because i bought these from a trader and i have no access to the breeder. they are showing signs of pyramiding and with the help of proper humidity and temps, i hope to stop it. will it be possible? from my understanding, the key to raising smooth torts is to prevent pyramids, and once started, the new growth will just follow what is already there.

below is how my 3 inchers' shells look like.

third one is a borrowed pic from wiki, but it shows exactly the level of pyramiding on both my 4 inch leopards.

 

[ascott]

Of course you can change the outcome of the tortoise in your care....hydration, sun, exercise and a varied diet...are all equal requirements to have a better chance of doing just that....beautiful tort(s) by the way

 

[russian/sulcata/tortoise]

pyramiding is caused by lack of humidity. if you make a closed chamber enclosure it can keep in good high humidity, there are some threads how to make it. if a tort is raised in high humidity and has a smooth shell, then it is put in a dry environment its shell can start pyramiding. can you post some pics of the enclosure?

 

[ascott]

pyramiding is caused by lack of humidity. if you make a closed chamber enclosure it can keep in good high humidity, there are some threads how to make it. if a tort is raised in high humidity and has a smooth shell, then it is put in a dry environment its shell can start pyramiding. can you post some pics of the enclosure?

All pyramiding is not solely caused by lack of humidity....there are several factors that play into a healthy tortoise....with all do respect.

 

[russian/sulcata/tortoise]

All pyramiding is not solely caused by lack of humidity....there are several factors that play into a healthy tortoise....with all do respect.

i thought that the majority of pyramiding is caused by humidity? sorry if I'm wrong

 

[ascott]

i thought that the majority of pyramiding is caused by humidity? sorry if I'm wrong

Not wrong Just not the only thing is all.....

 

[J.P.]

this is how i keep them at night....humidity hovers at 80%, sometimes getting a few digits higher or lower... temp in the hide is set at 85F, basking spot of about 100F. but i seldom turn on the basking spot since they spend almost the whole day outside.

they spend the day in these feeding boxes...this is an older pic, and most of the grass are taller/thicker now...since i live in a tropical country, relative himidity outside is always high. even then, humidity on the ground is kept higher by watering the ground every few hours. they do have shallow tub at all times, i do not know why it's not in this picture, maybe i was cleaning it (can't remember really, but i assure you they have it)..they also get soaked and sprayed every couple of hours...

 

[J.P.]

forgot to add, my substrate is damp coco peat (just the earthy part)..i sift out the coir (fiber) part ever since i caught one of my little ones with a very long fiber stuck down his throat and sticking out of his mouth.

 

[J.P.]

i hope you guys do not get me wrong...i appreciate your advice on how to keep my leopards, but i am already aware of that by reading most of the information available in this forum.. my concern for starting this thread is to ask if you think there is hope for my torts' shells? thanks much everybody!

 

[Zeko]

i hope you guys do not get me wrong...i appreciate your advice on how to keep my leopards, but i am already aware of that by reading most of the information available in this forum.. my concern for starting this thread is to ask if you think there is hope for my torts' shells? thanks much everybody!

There is always hope. But that hope won't change to reality unless YOU make changes to your current care.

Looking at your pictures, it's safe to say humidity during the day is your biggest issue. You need to find a way to increase it. Perhaps more soaks, or a greenhouse frame in structure.

The current pyramiding will never go away, but you can make their future growth smooth.

 

[ascott]

i hope you guys do not get me wrong...i appreciate your advice on how to keep my leopards, but i am already aware of that by reading most of the information available in this forum.. my concern for starting this thread is to ask if you think there is hope for my torts' shells? thanks much everybody!

Yes.

 

[J.P.]

increase humidity even if it's aready 80%?

these guys are with me one month and i got them like that...i used the closed chamber based on what i read here..and 80% seems to be what i remember...has the recommended figure gone higher now?

 

[Zeko]

increase humidity even if it's aready 80%?

these guys are with me one month and i got them like that...i used the closed chamber based on what i read here..and 80% seems to be what i remember...has the recommended figure gone higher now?

Yes 80% in the hide box is fine. Make sure you're using a digital hydrometer.

However, your day time humidity is likely 10-20% at most. This won't help them grow smoothly, especially if they are spending most of their day outside.

I have seen many use framed greenhouses with great success. These are cheap, and will help trap in humidity.

The real question is: How perfect do you want your care, and their shell/health to be? Only you can be the one to answer that.

 

[ascott]

increase humidity even if it's aready 80%?

these guys are with me one month and i got them like that...i used the closed chamber based on what i read here..and 80% seems to be what i remember...has the recommended figure gone higher now?

Okay, so if you are providing a humidity level that high for their day/outside time...then you have no worries....are they able to be outdoors year round where you live? and only brought indoors at night for safety right now?

 

[Zeko]

Okay, so if you are providing a humidity level that high for their day/outside time...then you have no worries....are they able to be outdoors year round where you live? and only brought indoors at night for safety right now?

He isn't, based upon the pictures. Only that humidity at night time in their Tupperware container.

Day time humidity is practically non-existent from what I can tell.

 

[J.P.]

Zeko,
my outside humidity is never gonna be as low as 20%..i am in the philippines and our tropical climate gives us very high humidity, i elevate that even higher by providing a damp environment...it's 72% now outside today, i just googled, it actually feels cool now because of the coming typhoon.....on hot days (which are more common), it feels like RH is almost 100% it's very difficult to move around without breaking buckets of sweat...i have digital hygrometers, i also have analogs, just for back up and they read the same...

 

[ascott]

He isn't, based upon the pictures. Only that humidity at night time in their Tupperware container.

Day time humidity is practically non-existent from what I can tell.

I believe the person lives in a tropical climate and that the torts are in the outdoor enclosure shown....and then at night they go into the tank/glass box inside....so I do believe that they are in good humidity most of the day...???/ waiting for the op to confirm

 

[J.P.]

thanks ascott, i do live in the tropics.. Philippines.. today is quite cool, due to an incoming tropical storm, relative humidity outside is 72%, temp is 85F (according to internet weather)..on hot days, RH can reach almost 100% (at least it feels that way)...so even without special care, my torts can theoretically thrive since where i am is spot on with their requirements..but i still do try to make things better, because i care about them a lot. i do not want to play favorites, but i think my torts are getting most of my pet time simply because they are the most sensitive species i've kept..

to answer your other question...i only take them in because it can get as low as 60F at night outside.....now is actually one of our coldest months. when they are bigger, i am hoping to keep them outside 24/7, if only during summer..

 

[ascott]

thanks ascott, i do live in the tropics.. Philippines.. relative humidity outside is 72%, temp is 85F (according to internet weather)...so even without special care, my torts can theoretically thrive since where i am is spot on with their requirements..but i still do try to make things better, because i care about them a lot. i do not want to play favorites, but i think my torts are getting most of my pet time simply because they are the most sensitive species i've kept..

to answer your other question...i only take them in because it can get as low as 60F at night outside.....now is actually one of our coldest months. when they are bigger, i am hoping to keep them outside 24/7, if only during summer..

You have what sounds like a perfect set up.....yes, the shells can and do grow in smoother when the animal is put in a different environment. If the torts already had some pyramiding when they came into your care, and they are now in a different/more desirable set up, then absolutely their overall appearance, including the shell, will begin to reflect that. I also would be sure to allow a way for the torts to go to a drier area or offer up a period in the day in which to allow their shell to dry out from time to time as they see fit...a healthy shell should also be allowed the opportunity to dry out some , this will help to avoid any bad shell conditions....now, I do not mean to dry the tort out like a piece of jerky...but to simply offer a way for the tort to dry out some during the day if he so feels the need.....

 

[J.P.]

thanks ascott, i think they have that chance to dry outside when they are basking in the sun......their indoor housing is also not swampy. i think they had a bit of dry conditions before because they drank a lot when i got them...they used to visit their water all the time, not so much now.. i only see them drinking during soaks, but not that often.