Pyramiding in leopards

[Starry night]

Why do leopards always get pyramided as they grow to adults. Almost every adult I ever see for sale has such horrible pyramiding and this has kept me from buying one as it does not look natural at all. In Sri Lankans at least it's a uniform pyramiding, usually, and it does not look so bad in them. In the leopards it just looks bad and out of proportion. Is this from bad owner skills of is this just the way they grow.

 

[terracolson]

Well mine is 2 months old and i have had him her a week and I was told she has signs of pyramiding...

Here prior care was in a humid environment and i cant comment on her food, but the breed is very experienced and raises leopards, stars, sulcatas, Russians and Box.. they are all beautiful

 

[Yvonne G]

I've seen pictures of supposedly wild leopards in situ with pyramiding. I think they're just prone to it. But I don't know for sure. For every pyramided leopard you see in situ, there are more that are smooth.

 

[terrypin]

wow that seems large for 2 month's.
terry

 

[-EJ]

You're doing something wrong.

I have the same problem... 30 years breeding and raising leopards. I'm doing something wrong. They shouldn't have horrible pyramiding... they shouldn't have any pyramiding.

Stars are the same thing... Pyramiding is not normal.

While both species show this in the wild... it is not normal.

Now... does that mean the animal is unhealthy... no.

Why do leopards always get pyramided as they grow to adults. Almost every adult I ever see for sale has such horrible pyramiding and this has kept me from buying one as it does not look natural at all. In Sri Lankans at least it's a uniform pyramiding, usually, and it does not look so bad in them. In the leopards it just looks bad and out of proportion. Is this from bad owner skills of is this just the way they grow.

---

Kinda... but the idiot who told you this pretty much does not have a clue.

That is nice growth for any tortoise.

Well mine is 2 months old and i have had him her a week and I was told she has signs of pyramiding...

---

If I posted a photo of a one/2 year old that size??????

I wish people would get a clue on growth rate.

wow that seems large for 2 month's.
terry

 

[terrypin]

You're doing something wrong.

has kept me from buying one as it does not look natural at all. In Sri Lankans at least it's a uniform pyramiding, usually, and it does not look so bad in them. In the leopards it just looks bad and out of proportion. Is this from bad owner skills of is this just the way they grow.

---

Kinda... but the idiot who told you this pretty much does not have a clue.

That is nice growth for any tortoise.

Well mine is 2 months old and i have had him her a week and I was told she has signs of pyramiding...

---

If I posted a photo of a one/2 year old that size??????

I wish people would get a clue on growth rate.

wow that seems large for 2 month's.
terry
i still think that is showing considerable growth for two months after hatching.please explain how to " get a clue on growth rate" unless raising hatchlings to viable adults helps im need of some advice.
terry

 

[t_mclellan]

I can attest to the fact that Leopards in the wild also pyramid.
I have seen (not kept) literally thousands (hatchling to adult) of wild Leopard tortoises, Long term captives, Captive born, Wild & wild imports.
I would estimate that more than 1/2 of the captive animals showed some amount of pyramiding.
Of the wild & fresh imported animals I would say less than 1/3 showed some signs of pyramiding.

Why?
I don't have a clue!
I have a few friend that keep & breed them, They have tweaked there methods over the years & have found what EJ has found. They still don't have it all figured out!

 

[Tom]

I saw hundreds of wild and captive, but housed outdoors, Leopards all over South Africa. All ages, sexes and sizes. The "Bird and Animal Park" down in Capetown had over a hundred all in one place. Not one was pyramided at all. I didn't even recognize the species at first. Most were the pardalis subspecies, but I saw a bunch of smooth babcocks too.

Captive Leopards here do seem to always pyramid. Don't know why. In a few years I think we'll know if its humidity or not.

 

[terracolson]

Ok guys... So I bought Temperance from a local breeder who said she was born in November...

Now thats its almost March she would be more like 4 months old....
2.5 inches
58 grams

Does that sound better... I forget how times flys.....

DO you think the breeder could have been wrong.. she was iffy on the date since she has about 25 baby leos, a few redfoots and stars.....

 

[Shelly]

Ok guys... So I bought Temperance from a local breeder

"Temperance"? Does he go to meetings?

 

[terracolson]

Temperance needs meetings... she is very snotty... see

 

[Tom]

EJ and T_mclellan.

1. Have you guys tried raising them in high humidity much yet?

2. If so, did that seem to be a factor?

3. Have you raised one in high humidity and still had it pyramid?

4. Have you had any respiratory tract infection problems due to high humidity?

 

[t_mclellan]

Hi Roachman26;
I don't keep leopards, Never have. The little I know is from what I have seen in the business over the years & from a few friends that keep them.
As for the other questions, I don't know of any leopards kept outside in Fl. that have done well. All have had repeated RI as long as they were kept humid.
Of the animals kept indoors, They did better but were still not thriving. They were all pyramided, Some drastically.
I think your idea might prove to be beneficial.
I do know that 2 friends keeping & breeding Pancake tortoises (kept indoors) down here, They have had great results with the typical "HOT & cool" terrarium supplied with a relatively humid hide.
This may be a step in the right direction for leopards also.

Again these are species that I do not keep & can only give a "Readers Digest" version of there care here in South Florida from the results I have seen with friends.

 

[Tom]

Thanks for the speedy reply. So you do know of leopards kept in FL, where its always humid, that ARE doing well and thriving?

What I'm trying to figure out is if its the cold/clammy climates that give them the URTIs or if its just plain too much humidity. Its seems some people, like me and Vicky from tortoise yard, can keep them very humid with no problem and others have to be very careful with it. Its very hot and DRY where I'm from here in the CA high desert, but its very hot and HUMID in FL. Leopards seem the thrive in both areas. It seems maybe high heat is the key regardless of humidity. Southern CA and Southern FL have a lot more sunny, warm/hot days than other parts of the country. We regularly hit the high 70's or low 80's here all through the middle of winter. And its usually sunny even when it is cooler. Could that be it? I'd love to hear what others think, too. Please feel free to chime in if anyone has anything to add.

Hi Roachman26;
I don't keep leopards, Never have. The little I know is from what I have seen in the business over the years & from a few friends that keep them.
As for the other questions, I don't know of any leopards kept outside in Fl. that have done well. All have had repeated RI as long as they were kept humid.
Of the animals kept indoors, They did better but were still not thriving. They were all pyramided, Some drastically.
I think your idea might prove to be beneficial.
I do know that 2 friends keeping & breeding Pancake tortoises (kept indoors) down here, They have had great results with the typical "HOT & cool" terrarium supplied with a relatively humid hide.
This may be a step in the right direction for leopards also.

Again these are species that I do not keep & can only give a "Readers Digest" version of there care here in South Florida from the results I have seen with friends.

 

[terracolson]

Temperance was raised on a bedding of peat moss, that kept the area humid, but the breeder did not have a gauge so i could not tell you how humid. She was in a rubbermaid tub with many others and one basking bulb. You can see in the earlier pics she isn't perfectly smooth.

Now BB and Salt I have raised since Dec and Jan.. I got them from a breeder with 100 dry bedding and not sure about humidity, but she doesnt offer them water except once a week, and i took them when the yoke sac was gone. give or take a few days.

I have them in a bedding of Orchard Grass half and eco earth quarter of enclosure and a grass flat the rest... Humidity is from 50% to 70%. I keep the basking light 90-95 on the grass flat, so its the hottest in the humid area. (i hear you get RNS if its cool on the humid side) and i also have a second 75 watt bulb on the orchard grass side, to keep it at 80. There hides are at 75-77.

They were received before any of the black growth on the shutes and so far its perfect. So i guess in a couple months i will know more....not like you can really tell now....

Temperance born some time Nov 2009 ( i got her/him in Jan)

This is BB born dec 22 2009 (had since jan 16)

Then Salty Born early Jan 2010 Picked up after yoke sac dried cant tell yet, but in a month or so, i would think you would notice...

 

[N2TORTS]

Why do leopards always get pyramided as they grow to adults. Almost every adult I ever see for sale has such horrible pyramiding and this has kept me from buying one as it does not look natural at all. In Sri Lankans at least it's a uniform pyramiding, usually, and it does not look so bad in them. In the leopards it just looks bad and out of proportion. Is this from bad owner skills of is this just the way they grow.

Ya know ... Ive wondered the same thing .... yes .. folks have posted Smooth leps .. ect .. but most seen and sold in the pet trade even at expos/shows..... are all way to young to even see pyramiding present.Just look at a 15 year old leo .... is it pyramiding ?..and a 5 year old ... according to who ? I obtained my first in 1989 when folks got 2K for a 10" female ( funny .. I just found an old pic of a russian trying to hump my Leo ...21 years ago! ) ...... I have two now ... .. I encountered a couple years back about 4" at the time ( now 6+")... .. to nice lil leps .. ( awesome coloring ) .. from a so called experienced tort guy ... well needless to say .... they too had/have pryamid... but seems to have no effect on their last two years of a healthy life style ...
and whats even more a kicker ...I hear more than ever WOW what a cool shell ....!
GO FIGURE!