Long time owner, guess I didnt know as much as I thought ;-(

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Stev0623

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Well, I've owned tortoises for about two years with my girlfriend. It all started with just one (She thought our little redfoot was just the most adorable little thing ever)

Well, that one little redfoot has turned into 7 redfoots in the past two years. I do my best to take care of them all, but a visit to the vet yesterday left me feeling lower than the grass they eat

One of my females didn't eat yesterday morning (Very rare, through up a red flag). I paid a little more attention to her during feeding,she seemed to be hissing at me which isn't too uncommn for this one. When I came back out about an hour later to try and get her to eat, she seemed to be coughing and weezing.

I knew what it was immediatly. I lost a RF last year because I didn't act fast enough. I immediatly called the vet who got her in.

The vet saw her, and got her X-Rays taken care of. He said he couldn't see the infection, so that was a good sign but did say he saw what appeared to be dirt(She'd be eating it =X). He gave her Fortax(?) instead of baytril. I don't know the difference, but I've heared baytril was better?

He then proceeded to get all over me about her pyramading and how she appeared to be a very unhealthy tort.

This angered me alot, because most of my RFs were in horrid shape when I got them. Her pyraids are all very hard, not hollow at all. I assured him she's alot better since being in my possesion. Then he lectured me about getting sick animals... Theres nothing I can do, he's the only good herp vet within 2 hours from me.

I've got to go back for another fortax shot on saturday, and then a final shot and office visit on tuesday.

I went home to look up more about a respiratory infection, only to find out about something called "Shell Rot". Before last night, I had never heard of it. I went out and check my torts, and theres nothing on any of their shells. However, the bottoms of their shells all have something on it :-(.

I found a few sources of treatment (Betadine, and lotrimine cream?). Any other suggested treatments?

I'm so upset about the shell rot. I thought I was a good owner. I've included pics of some of my torts and their enclosure.

Any advice helps.

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Cherbear

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It's too bad you can't go to another vet. I can't answer about shell rot, but just wanted to say your torts are beautiful.
 

jackrat

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I've used betadine and nolvasan scrub,both with excellent results.
 

Redfoot NERD

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2 maybe 3 at the most are bumpy.. only one has hardly any fungus which could get serious [ TRUE shell-rot ] if not treated.

My partner posted about treatment and progress on Redfoots.com - so I posted it on the bottom of my caresheet...
scroll down -
http://www.turtletary.com/redfootcare.htm

I happen to believe that RF's are prone to fungus when kept on substrate that is too wet [ in an attempt to keep humidity % up ]!

Spray their carapace every opportunity.. NOT the substrate.

Keep us posted...

NERD

BTW - you are welcome to call me if you'd like to discuss this further.
 

Stev0623

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Its tough because they all have the same diet (different greens 3-4x a week, and a source of protein twice a month.) i controll the pyramiing the best I can to maintain healthy torts.

They live outside, so that could be a big part of the shell rot. Ill try to actively keep an eye and keep it treated.

Does anyone have any experience wth "Fortaz"? Im concerned with the respiratory problem, but the very assured me its all good.
 

Stev0623

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So im still worried about "Momma" as I call her. Shes not eating today, which makes two days of not eating. Is that normal from a respiratory infection?
 

Jacqui

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I have never had the "pleasure" of having anybody with a RI (knocking very hard on my wooden head:p), but it seems to be very common for them to got off food a bit. I kinda think of it like if you are having breathing issues, would you want to be chowing down? Plus she did get a trip to the vet and meds all of which no doubt gave her a bit of stress to top her day off. ;) Going without food for a few days is not going to be a serious thing for her. Tortoises can go without eating a lot longer then a lot of animals. So relax, just a little.

Your not doing a bad job with your RFs from what I can see. Over all they are not in bad shape. Perhaps your Vet was having a bad day and took it out on you?:(

So these guys are outside and getting the shell rot?
 

egyptiandan

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They probably need some supplementing (calcium) to help with the pyramiding. If you follow Terry's diet you shouldn't have any problems with their health and shell shape.
Just for the heck of it :)
#13 Male
#11 Female
#9 Female
#7 Male
#5 Looks like a Male
#3 Looks like a Female

Danny
 

Tom

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Hey your herd looks pretty good. It was asinine for your vet to lecture you about something somebody else did. If it was pyramided and/or unhealthy BEFORE you got it, your vet should be praising you for rescuing it. Besides all of that, up until just a few short years ago we were ALL raising pyramided torts! If one turned out smooth, it was by accident and the person didn't know how they did it. I hear a guilty conscience in your vets words. Ask him if he ever raised a pyramided tort in the past. I'll bet that will open a door neither of you were expecting.

None of us were born knowing this stuff. I feel horribly guilty about what my torts suffered through while I was learning, so I go out of my way to help new people avoid the mistakes I made. That's all you can do.

BTW, if this is your second RI, then you might need to bump up temps 10-15 degrees somehow. Warmer temps will also help Momma recover.
 

Madkins007

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Stev0623 said:
Well, I've owned tortoises for about two years with my girlfriend. It all started with just one (She thought our little redfoot was just the most adorable little thing ever)

Well, that one little redfoot has turned into 7 redfoots in the past two years. I do my best to take care of them all, but a visit to the vet yesterday left me feeling lower than the grass they eat

One of my females didn't eat yesterday morning (Very rare, through up a red flag). I paid a little more attention to her during feeding,she seemed to be hissing at me which isn't too uncommn for this one. When I came back out about an hour later to try and get her to eat, she seemed to be coughing and weezing.

I knew what it was immediatly. I lost a RF last year because I didn't act fast enough. I immediatly called the vet who got her in.

The vet saw her, and got her X-Rays taken care of. He said he couldn't see the infection, so that was a good sign but did say he saw what appeared to be dirt(She'd be eating it =X). He gave her Fortax(?) instead of baytril. I don't know the difference, but I've heared baytril was better?

He then proceeded to get all over me about her pyramading and how she appeared to be a very unhealthy tort.

This angered me alot, because most of my RFs were in horrid shape when I got them. Her pyraids are all very hard, not hollow at all. I assured him she's alot better since being in my possesion. Then he lectured me about getting sick animals... Theres nothing I can do, he's the only good herp vet within 2 hours from me.

I've got to go back for another fortax shot on saturday, and then a final shot and office visit on tuesday.

I went home to look up more about a respiratory infection, only to find out about something called "Shell Rot". Before last night, I had never heard of it. I went out and check my torts, and theres nothing on any of their shells. However, the bottoms of their shells all have something on it :-(.

I found a few sources of treatment (Betadine, and lotrimine cream?). Any other suggested treatments?

I'm so upset about the shell rot. I thought I was a good owner. I've included pics of some of my torts and their enclosure.

Any advice helps.

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Fortax- this does not appear to be the correct name, however, Baytril is an antibiotic and RI is a viral infection. Antibiotics have no direct effect on viruses and using them in a supportive role 'just in case' is questionable. If you find the right med name, maybe we can help figure out why it was used instead.

Shell Rot- you appear to have what I have been thinking of as the 'immersion version' of shell rot. If there are no dark pits, bad smells, fungl growths, etc. you have a mild case. Happens to a lot of us.

The mild cases seem to respond well to a variety of treatments. Wash the tortoise well, then gently scrape off as much of the soft stuff as possible if there is any left. Scrub firmly but gently with a good cleanser like Betadine- but only use it once or twice early on as it will actually delay healing. If everything is clean, you can use a small dab of an anti-fungal cream, but if there was no real fungal growth, this is not critical.

Replace or modify the substrate, especially where it sleeps- add better drainage, keep it drier, etc. Whatever works for you. Monitor the condition. It should look drier and cleaner quickly. If not, retreat and use the fungal cream for sure.

Note that it will not heal immediately- you will probably see some scarring for years- but the rotting should stop quickly and everything should look cleaner and drier.

The Pen- If I was ranking pens, I'd probably give yours a solid C+ with bonus points for heart. Its not a bad home, but it is rather bland and grass is a rather wet substrate for most tortoises. I like the several hides, but I would add interest and more natural elements by doing things like:
- Lots of tort-safe plants, edible or just for shade/hides
- Add a hill somewhere, possibly with a burrow dug into it
- Make a pile of fresh leafy branches, ideally from a Mulberry tree that has not been sprayed or not close to a major street, They can eat the leaves and will hide and clamber in the pile.
- I don't recall seeing the water dish, but a big sunken, easy-access plastic plant saucer works great
- Add some different walking surfaces, like a pebble pathway.
(Note- you don't need to do all of them, or over do it!)

The best rule of thumb for an outdoor pen (or an indoor habitat) I have ever heard is that it should be hard to see the tortoises when you do it right.

I know some keepers will disagree and suggest that simple pens are easier to maintain or better in other ways, but the more naturalistic you make things, the more natural the behaviors you will see. Animal behavioralists all agree that 'enriching' the lives of captive animals has solid and proven positive effects on them.

If you hit the Tortoise Library link on my signature below, you'll find several articles on the subject I am working on, including one on enrichments and another on Red-foot care.

Feeling bad- Don't. There is a lot more bad advice floating around out there than there is solid stuff. Even today, a lot of advice is based on old ideas and 'science' taken out of context. Your torts look good- take pride in that!
 

Yvonne G

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I believe its really called Fortaz (ceftazidime). Its frequently used instead of Baytril, however, Baytril is still the best.
 

Madkins007

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emysemys said:
I believe its really called Fortaz (ceftazidime). Its frequently used instead of Baytril, however, Baytril is still the best.

Just to point something out for new keepers...

a. Antibiotics do not help against viral infections. Do not randomly use antibiotics for all diseases- you create problems that are potentially far worse than the original problem- like resistant bugs, digestive issues, etc.

b. Baytril (Enrofloxacin) is a good, general purpose antibiotic, but there are things that other meds do better.

c. Using antibiotics is simple, but tricky both. It is not like using an aspirin or cold relief (which, by the way, also does not really work). People like Yvonne who run a rescue and often deal with sick or injured animals should know this sort of thing, but beginning keepers really should get an expert opinion- vet, well-experienced rescuer, etc. before using stuff like this.
 

Stev0623

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I woke up this morning and Momma was a ton better. Finishing the fortaz as the vet advised, but im very relieved.

How long should I wait after tye antibiotics are through to put her back with the others?
 

HLogic

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I quarantine for 60 to 90 days assuming there is no visible or clinical symptoms. As torts can require a longer time to demonstrate symptoms, I would play it safe. If after that time there is no 'relapse' or other complications, it should be safe to return her to the communal enclosure.
 

Sweetness_bug

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I dont own RF...But the shells look in good shape and they look pretty healthy. Your right about vets they are hard to find for tortoises. We dont have any around here i have to drive over an hour for a vet who half the time doesnt even know cause he doesnt specialize in tortoises. Your best bet when going for advise is finding a great breeder in your area or talking to someone here. so you have an idea of the best way to treat and whats wrong. The vet was wrong he should be there to treat the animal not pass judgement. Expecially since it was you who did the pyramiding. People on this site here are great for support and knowledge...keep your head up :)
 
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