Looking to get a leo

[Gennifer11]

I currently have a sulcata that's nearly 1 year old. His indoor enclosure is large enough to split in two. I was thinking a leopard tortoise would be the perfect choice since they have similar needs. I wanted to wait to make sure I could raise a sulcata properly before branching out, and I think I'm ready. But I have some questions after surfing the web.

1. My BIGGEST question: Are there any specific requirements that differ between the Sulcata and leopard? Do they both need 80% humidity when little, ambient temps 80F, basking 100-110F, etc....
2. Is there any real difference between eastern and western leos other than the regions they are native to? Any physical differences? How do the female and male differ?
3. I saw the post about the Sulcata leo hybrid, it's gorgeous. Are hybrids common? I also like the whiter lighter colored ones. Is it hard to find them?
3. Are leos prone to shell rot?
4. I read they are the 4th largest tort, what is the average adult size? I can't imagine it would reach the Sulcata size?

I'm sure I will have many more questions so thank you in advance!

 

[tinkerbell1189]

I can answer a few, no definitely not as big as a sulcata, I think they can grow to around 3ft. And as far as I know they are not prone to shell rot, that's more red foots. Humidity would also depend on the age of the Leo as well I think. I'm sure some other members will be able to give you all the info you need.

 

[AmRoKo]

The hybrids are not commonly sold, I know someone who sells them sometimes, you can probably ask him if he will have any available for future purchase. The hybrids are more expensive than leo's and sullies. My leo's have the same care as my sullies.

 

[Jodie]

The temp and humidity is the same when they are little. Leopards are not as cold tolerant as Sullies when older, i don't think. The diet is similar. Sullies eat more grass or hay usually though. The 2 types in US are regular Leopards and SA leopards. The SA leo's are bigger and usually less shy. My 15 year old female regular Leo is 20 pounds. I think they don't get larger than 100. Not prone to shell rot.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

Leopard tortoises are great. My favorite in fact!
But you wanting to divide the Sulcata enclosure in half is curious. Why not create a whole second habitat? Do you have the room? They'll need a lot of it... Especially as they grow in size.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

But in answering your questions..

1. Although I've never raised any Sulcata, I've raised leopards and would house them with the same set ups/conditions etc. So husbandry is the same.

2. There are physical and characteristic differences between what's commonly referred to as "normal babcocki" leopards and SA leopards. The physical differences are subtle and may not be noticed by some. Characteristic differences fall into the general consensus that Babcocki are more shy while SA are more outgoing. This is not a guarantee though..

3. Hybrids are not as common, will cost more and opens up a new can of worms...
Some say you can pick a lighter baby for a lighter adult..Some say it will look like the parents.. Some say coloring comes from sunlight, lack there of or diet. Honestly, I don't know...I wanted a light leopard and got a very dark one! You'll love him anyway

Also 3. Prone to shell rot? Not necessarily but unfortunately I've seen a handful have it.

4. Personally I don't understand the "4th largest" size rating. Plan for at least a foot long leopard (give or take with gender) that will need a decent patch of yard to roam.

If you can easily accommodate a foot long leopard AND your soon to be tank of a Sulcata tortoise in separate, adequate housing, then go for it! But don't cram them into shared quarters or smaller living spaces just to have "more" tortoises.
That's my opinion.

 

[Gennifer11]

Thank you everyone, right now my sulcata enclosure is huge. I plan to up grade to a better quality eventually so for at least another year they can share the same enclosure. I was able to find a leopard tort breeder nearby and I can pick one out next month

 

[Gennifer11]

Hey everyone, it's time. I had a scheduled meet up with a breeder a week ago but she stood me up. So I am now looking for a new baby leopard tortoise! The cheapest I found was on kingsnake for $90 plus shipping. Does anyone else know of a good place or a reputable breeder?

I live in VA, I would love to meet the guy/s before purchase but the pickings are slim over here.

 

[Gennifer11]

I'm also open to any ivory sullies or leo's. Or any leocatas. For a low price

 

[Jodie]

Be wary of online breeders. If hatchlings are started dry, you run the risk of hatchling fail syndrome. It is heartbreaking. There are a lot of breeders here on the forum that start them right.

 

[Gennifer11]

I've been thinking about the hatchling failure syndrome last night. Do you think there is a good age to buy a baby tort so that the chances of dying are lessoned?

 

[cmacusa3]

Depends on which breed of tort but my personal preference for Leopards or Sulcatas is no less than 4 months and 100 grams.

 

[Tom]

Read this so that you will know the questions to ask of any breeder you find:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/hatchling-failure-syndrome.23493/

If you hear key phrases like "rabbit pellet substrate", "once a week soaks", "low humidity", "raised in the sunshine outdoors", etc..., shop elsewhere. If you can find a baby that is more than 100 grams in weight, you can probably rule out "breeder failure syndrome". (Its not the hatchling that failed in these cases...)

What size is your current sulcata enclosure?

 

[Gennifer11]

Awesome thanks. I've been very inquisitive with any potentials so far. I found one lady that seems to have a passion for doing things correclty. But I'm waiting to see if I can adopt a couple of leo's from this forum before I buy a new one, just waiting to see if they are still available.

I currently have a 4'x2' closed enclosure. My baby is growing beautifully. He's been spending all day outside since spring started and only coming inside to sleep.

The first pic is from the first day of spring. And the second pic was this week. proud momma here

3rd pic is from the lady who seems to be doing great. Mynewturtle.com (have you heard about this site at all??)

The others are from kingsnake but I haven't heard back from them yet.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

Contact Olivia and Adam @Torts"R"Us
I've purchased some from them and although they are in CA, they will ship it to you.
They start their leopard babies right. Since you can't pick it out in person, you can pick yours though photos.

I just celebrated a 3rd Birthday with one I bought from them as a baby!



I highly recommend them. You won't regret it.

 

[Tom]

Gennifer, I start hatchling sulcatas in enclosures the size of yours. By the time they are one year old they are typically outgrowing a 4x8 enclosure. I think reducing the size to 2x2 feet is a big mistake for a year old sulcata. I would make a bigger enclosure for your sulcata, and then use the current one, after thorough disinfection with hot soapy water and 10-15% dilute ammonia, for your incoming leopard baby.

You also mentioned getting a "couple" leopards. That would be a mistake. Tortoises don't do well in pairs. I would get just one, or 3 or more.

The above ads are lovely, but the devil is in the details. Have you seen all the heart breaking cases of babies dying here? It is because they bought from ads just like these and the breeders didn't start the babies correctly. I would ask each of those breeders how they start their babies. What substrate, how often do they soak, what level of humidity do they strive for, do they leave them in the incubator to absorb the yolk sac, or do they use brooder boxes, etc...

 

[Gennifer11]

I think my plan is to make a new enclosure for my sulcata and put the leo in my old enclosure. When you talked about pairs, did you mean to not buy two leo's? do they really do better in 1s or 3s?

I honestly don't know much about the hatching process. So I don't know what the best questions are for that. How long should a baby soak up its sak? What types of questions should I ask regarding the hatching process?