My box turtle hatchling passed away, help me take steps towards the other hatchlings!

[TurtleTab]

I posted a thread yesterday about a three-toed baby hatchling that was born at 56 days old. His yolk sac was larger than he was and he only moved 3xs and that was reflexive. He passed away at only a day old, if that. He was too premature. I have two other eggs that are currently 58 days old and not hatched yet. I am scared and concerned that what I can do for them will not be enough to keep them alive. Can you please walk me through the steps with very specific detail on how to care for them? What if they don't move like normal hatchlings? That was the case with Lux, my baby that passed. Should I wear gloves? Should I remove the eggs from their natural nest and put in container? I don't have UV bulbs because my turtles are outdoor turtles. Should I leave them be? How often do I need to check on them? I am paranoid that I may harm all of them not even knowing that I'm harming them. The mistake I made with Lux is that I saw that he was still in the embryotic sac inside his egg shell, but the shell had cracked wide open so I was scared that he needed the embryotic sac removed from his face...so I removed it. I did not detach him from his yolk sac, though. I know not to remove him from his egg shell now. I'm sure I should just let nature take its course and let the egg sit cracked until he's ready to come out....but while I'm in panic mode, give me some steps to calm myself and what to do while in wait...please. I understand that eggs should hatch about 70 days after being laid but I've read anywhere from 44 days to 120 days are possible. She laid 4 eggs on June 16th. 1 egg broke open before I found the nest and was laying there empty and dried out. I live in Missouri near Mississippi River so we get hot humid summers. The temps have fluctuated anywhere from 75 to 95 degrees so far. I would guess the average temp to be about 80. Nest has remained moist. We've had thunderstorms first week of August, still moist from that, too. I removed most of the soil around eggs. they were about 3 inches down into the ground. Now eggs are about 1/2 inch under dirt. I keep a screen around the site and it is also screened on top. Is there more info that I need to provide for accuracy? Please help me save these hatchlings from ignorance. Their parents are currently lost and I'm waiting for their return, so it is mandatory that I save them for my sanity and their safety of course.

 

[Eric Phillips]

Sorry to here that TurtleTab, most likely there was an issue with the sac and an infection occurred. Sometimes nature just takes its course. Hopefully your other 2 eggs hatch some healthy 3 toes. Good Luck!

 

[ZEROPILOT]

After a certain amount of time and embryo development, the eggs must NOT be tilted or moved or the developing babies will be harmed. You haven't been handling the eggs, right? There is a trick on keeping them humid and not to the point of getting fungus and from my experience, the adults couldn't care less about the eggs once laid.

 

[TurtleTab]

I did not touch the egg until I saw that it had split in two. That's when I panicked and assumed that it would draw ants and be eaten alive. I picked it up very carefully, knowing that I was not to tilt it. There are no adult turtles in the enclosure and I do understand that adult turtles do not care once the eggs are laid. In fact, I think adult turtles will eat the hatchlings if no intervention is taken. I have not handled the other two eggs. I am very paranoid on doing anything with them right now. they are 58 days old. I am just patiently waiting and watching. Once they hatch, I'm vrey afraid on what to do.

 

[tortadise]

From what I saw in the other thread, there was not much to save these. Definite premature hatching. I only hatch boxies out of the ground so no idea when they're suppose to hatch and what temps to use. I have had this happen with some mountain tortoise eggs, they hatched right on time, but were preemies. Huge egg sacs and didn't make it past 3 days. I kept them too wet I think, and not warm enough, or too cool. The entire United States has had a very very unusual cool spring summer. Mostly being in eastern and central southern regions too. I'd say the eggs were too cool and moist.

 

[TurtleTab]

We had horrible thunderstorms last week so I'm wondering if that's what did it to that hatchling. As for heat, I'm thinking that's ok. It hasn't been too hot this summer, never into late 90's or early 100's. It's been fluctuating between 75 and 95. Maybe an average of 80. Missouri weather near Mississippi River is always humid. It can snow one day and need sunscreen the next day....seriously. But of course no snow and I don't remember any cold days this summer...so cold I would not think is the problem...but possibly rain.

 

[tortadise]

We had horrible thunderstorms last week so I'm wondering if that's what did it to that hatchling. As for heat, I'm thinking that's ok. It hasn't been too hot this summer, never into late 90's or early 100's. It's been fluctuating between 75 and 95. Maybe an average of 80. Missouri weather near Mississippi River is always humid. It can snow one day and need sunscreen the next day....seriously. But of course no snow and I don't remember any cold days this summer...so cold I would not think is the problem...but possibly rain.

Keep in mind though the temperature in the ground is different than ambient temps. I'd be willing to bet the thunderstorms was the kicker. Sometimes when too wet of an egg happens with an increase in temperature can force the gaseous matter inside to expand causing a premature pip(crack in egg) and then it's game over most of the time, I've only saved a few premature hatchers, but eggs have stages of embryonic development anyways. If they are 3rd term it's never going to live. 4th term is salvageable depending on how far 4th term it is. Your appeared to be 3rd or very early 4th term.

 

[TurtleTab]

Thank you for the info!! Yes, they are exactly 58 days old because I remember when Bedelia laid the eggs. She laid them on a Monday June 16 at night. I was expecting them to hatch around Aug 25th. Do you think the other two may not make it as well? The eggs are not cracked. Should I not moisten them anymore? Sometimes I add water near the nest so it will absorb....but if they are too moist, I will not do anything....I don't do this daily...maybe once a week IF the dirt looks drier than usual. But thunderstorms made it more wet so ....I'm just not going to interfere with anything. Just let everything be and watch. I will research embryotic stages. Thank you!

 

[tortadise]

Thank you for the info!! Yes, they are exactly 58 days old because I remember when Bedelia laid the eggs. She laid them on a Monday June 16 at night. I was expecting them to hatch around Aug 25th. Do you think the other two may not make it as well? The eggs are not cracked. Should I not moisten them anymore? Sometimes I add water near the nest so it will absorb....but if they are too moist, I will not do anything....I don't do this daily...maybe once a week IF the dirt looks drier than usual. But thunderstorms made it more wet so ....I'm just not going to interfere with anything. Just let everything be and watch. I will research embryotic stages. Thank you!

Oh boy. Yeah no water. Don't add water, especially if lots of rain. I would leave it be. Hopefully the others will make it. Sounds for sure too wet and early pip. Just leave them where they're at and see what happens.

 

[tortadise]

You can read through this thread I did on one of the many trips I make to Costa Rica. It's on sea turtles but relatively the same as tortoises or turtles. Towards the bottom you can see the stages of development and death in the eggs.

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...servation-trip-contains-graphic-images.83827/

 

[TurtleTab]

I checked out the page you gave me but I did not see any images at all. Im wondering if they were removed? As for my hatchling, Lux, his shell was the size of a thumb nail, maybe just a little bit bigger. I would say he took up half or a little bit more of half of the egg shell. Yolk sac was of course bigger than him. I will not touch the eggs, I will not water the eggs, I will not, I will not...my god....Im a horrible turtle mother. This is hard. A couple more weeks to go hopefully. Oh, I do have a question about the egg color since they may not have survived the thunderstorms? One is white like it has always been. The other looks pretty dirty, like a dirty white or actually gray. It's scary to admit because what if the gray one is no longer alive? I'm not touching it though. It's in mother natures hands. I will try to take a picture if I feel brave enough to look at the egg nest. It's giving me anxiety right now.

 

[Moozillion]

Turtle Tab: please, Please, PLEASE stop kicking yourself!!!! You are NOT a bad turtle mother!!

Someone wiser than me once said "My best teacher is my most recent mistake!" And I think that is very true. The first cat I ever had got terribly injured and ultimately died because of something I did not understand at the time. After he passed and I learned what my error had been, I promised his little soul that I would never, EVER allow a pet of mine to experience that again, and I have kept my word. That way, his passing became a gift to every cat I've had since then.

You already feel terrible, and beating yourself up is never the next right thing to do.

 

[johnsonnboswell]

I'm not sure what you had in mind by removing the dirt around the eggs. It would have insulated the eggs and tempered temperature fluctuation.

 

[TurtleTab]

I just recently removed the dirt around the eggs since I've been back from vacation. So for about four days now. When I uncovered them, that's when I noticed the "pipping" of the hatchling that passed away. So, thinking that they were all going to hatch since that one did, I uncovered to 1/2 inch of dirt so I can monitor the eggs better. Of course, I read everywhere on the internet that eggs may hatch anywhere from 44 days to 120 days. So, assuming one hatched, the others might have. I will cover back up. it has not rained since I've been back from vacation thankfully.

 

[TurtleTab]

Thank you Moozillion!

 

[tortadise]

I checked out the page you gave me but I did not see any images at all. Im wondering if they were removed? As for my hatchling, Lux, his shell was the size of a thumb nail, maybe just a little bit bigger. I would say he took up half or a little bit more of half of the egg shell. Yolk sac was of course bigger than him. I will not touch the eggs, I will not water the eggs, I will not, I will not...my god....Im a horrible turtle mother. This is hard. A couple more weeks to go hopefully. Oh, I do have a question about the egg color since they may not have survived the thunderstorms? One is white like it has always been. The other looks pretty dirty, like a dirty white or actually gray. It's scary to admit because what if the gray one is no longer alive? I'm not touching it though. It's in mother natures hands. I will try to take a picture if I feel brave enough to look at the egg nest. It's giving me anxiety right now.

That's weird. They showed up for me when I clicked on it. Don't worry too much. Things happen. This can happen in nature too. With unusual weather patterns, cold fronts, above or below average rainfall. It's nothing to beat yourself up over. The others should be fine.

 

[TurtleTab]

I just checked again today and still no images. But that's ok. Maybe there's something with my computer where it's filtered and I can't access photos? Not as computer literate as I should be sometimes.

 

[tortadise]

Term 1 is embryo-25% developed turtle
Term 2 is 26-50% developed turtle
Term 3 is 51-75% developed turtle
Term 4 is greater than 75% (Term 4s are almost a pipped animal)


How about now?

 

[StarSapphire22]

View attachment 91835
Term 1 is embryo-25% developed turtle
Term 2 is 26-50% developed turtle
Term 3 is 51-75% developed turtle
Term 4 is greater than 75% (Term 4s are almost a pipped animal)


How about now?

That's a really neat picture! Sad, but neat!

 

[tortadise]

That's a really neat picture! Sad, but neat!

Yeah it is sad, but part of nature. Over 75% of that clutch hatched though. Which is phenomenal for wild nests. Was tagged from a very old female. A survivor.