My Tortoise got into her soaking bin overnight and seems to be bleeding

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

No worries! I know you’re trying to help! And no they stay in their enclosure as she is too little to be wondering about quite yet

Yes definitely agree on that front, just wanted to check, I’m sorry this is happening

 

[Pyro40]

Sorry to say this, but your tortoise appears to have septicemia which is often fatal. You need a good reptile vet to check this animal soon.

Do you happen to know if this is typically solved with a topical ointment or with an oral medication?

 

[Tom]

I agree with Zovick's assessments. One more opinion...

Do you happen to know if this is typically solved with a topical ointment or with an oral medication?

This problem usually isn't solvable. By the time you see symptoms like this the tortoise is pretty far gone. Injectable antibiotics would be the most likely treatment, but you need to figure out the cause.

The carapace tells a story of extreme dryness. The way you are housing this tortoise is not suitable. They need high humidity to grow normally and remain hydrated and healthy. Chronic dehydration can cause the kidney's and other organs to fail, which can then lead to the septicemia you are seeing now. This is just possibilities, not a certainty.

 

[Pyro40]

I agree with Zovick's assessments. One more opinion...


This problem usually isn't solvable. By the time you see symptoms like this the tortoise is pretty far gone. Injectable antibiotics would be the most likely treatment, but you need to figure out the cause.

The carapace tells a story of extreme dryness. The way you are housing this tortoise is not suitable. They need high humidity to grow normally and remain hydrated and healthy. Chronic dehydration can cause the kidney's and other organs to fail, which can then lead to the septicemia you are seeing now. This is just possibilities, not a certainty.

I see =/, I regularly mist the enclosure as well as give her weekly short soaks. She always has a clean water dish that I rotate as well as fresh organic kale that is occasionally sprinkled with calcium booster. Her enclosure is a tall wooden box with glass windows in order to keep in the humidity. I’m not sure what else I could have done to keep things good for her.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

I see =/, I regularly mist the enclosure as well as give her weekly short soaks. She always has a clean water dish that I rotate as well as fresh organic kale that is occasionally sprinkled with calcium booster. Her enclosure is a tall wooden box with glass windows in order to keep in the humidity. I’m not sure what else I could have done to keep things good for her.

The trouble with misting is it doesn’t last long, you’d need to aim for the lower layers of substrate being damp too, unfortunately because the set up has some open top space for the lights, humidity won’t stay where it needs to be
I could paste a bunch of information of how to appropriately set up for one as young as yours, but I don’t want to overwhelm you with a load of information whilst going through thislet me know if you would like it regardless though. It may come in useful

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

I see =/, I regularly mist the enclosure as well as give her weekly short soaks. She always has a clean water dish that I rotate as well as fresh organic kale that is occasionally sprinkled with calcium booster. Her enclosure is a tall wooden box with glass windows in order to keep in the humidity. I’m not sure what else I could have done to keep things good for her.

Have they been eating more that just the kale?

 

[Pyro40]

The trouble with misting is it doesn’t last long, you’d need to aim for the lower layers of substrate being damp too, unfortunately because the set up has some open top space for the lights, humidity won’t stay where it needs to be
I could paste a bunch of information of how to appropriately set up for one as young as yours, but I don’t want to overwhelm you with a load of information whilst going through thislet me know if you would like it regardless though. It may come in useful

Unfortunately, after going to the pet store for any sort of temporary aid and scheduling with a vet for a visit today she passed. Any information you would like to pass along would be great. I had her for 5 years and though I was doing well but any help on how this could have been prevented would be great information

 

[wellington]

So sorry for your loss
Please, before getting another one, learn the proper way to house one from this forum. Your enclosure was all wrong and misting in an open enclosure will not give the humidity needed, as the pyramiding that already started clearly shows to dry. That dish in the one pic with the ramp is hazardous too, do not use it
Not sure what lights or heat you had, but temps should never go below 80 day and night
A tube flourescent for uvb should be used.
Halogen, mercury or cfl(coil) bulbs should not be used
Incandescent FLOOD bulb should be used for basking that reaches 95-100 and ceramic heat emitters for added day heat and night heat.
All this in a closed chamber enclosure.
Cjay saucer big enough they can fit in for water.
Changes should be made and up and running before bringing in another tortoise.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Unfortunately, after going to the pet store for any sort of temporary aid and scheduling with a vet for a visit today she passed. Any information you would like to pass along would be great. I had her for 5 years and though I was doing well but any help on how this could have been prevented would be great information

I’m so sorry this happened to you

Unfortunately many people have been in your position where they’ve been sold the wrong kind of starter set ups and equipment, that’s not to say for certain was was the cause, but the right start can definitely go a long way in preventing these kind of things.

I’ll include the information below, but please allow yourself time to grieve, and just come back to it whenever you’re ready should you wish to try again


Basking light should be an incandescent floodlight(example attached) on a 12 hour timer.

Basking temperature directly under the floodlight should be 95-100f. The rest of the enclosure should be ranging 80-85, not dropping lower than 80 night or day, all over.

You may also wish to add ambient lighting on the same timer as the basking light, providing shady areas with hides and such.

If the floodlight isn’t enough to bump up the over enclosure temperature, you could add a CHE(ceramic heat emitter)or two depending on the size you go for, they’re a non light emitting heat bulb that people use to help make heat up/night heat. Again if it’s dropping below the 80’s at night, a CHE is a good idea. Always run any ceramic bulbs on a thermostat, you’ll set the thermostat for around 80, plug the ceramic(s) into the thermostat and plug the thermostat into the mains, it’ll be on 24/7, but the thermostat will only turn on the ceramic(s) if the temperature drops below 80, and will keep them off if the temperature is fine.

Dome fittings do help in projecting the heat down, just make sure to never solely rely on the clamp fittings that can come with them, they can fail, so it’s always best to hang them securely

Any Indoor Uv should be a t5 fluorescent tube, avoid the compact and coil uv bulbs, they don’t give out enough uv and can hurt the tortoises eyes. The uv can be on a 4 hour timer from noon. I’ve attached examples of the two brands to go for and stands people use to mount them. If you’re able to get them out safely for a few hours of natural sunlight, you won’t need this.

With lighting always avoid anything labelled halogen or mercury vapour.

For substrates, either coco coir, dampened and packed down by hand as a base, with a layer of orchid(fir not pine) bark or forest floor on top, or just the orchid bark/forest floor. Never use anything with sand mixed in, no top soils and no kinds of moss. The trouble with top soil is you don’t know what kind of plants have gone into it, they could be toxic. Moss and sand can cause impactions.

You want to aim to have the bottom layer of substrate damp, to do this pour lukewarm water into the corners, not loads but enough to dampen the entire bottom layer. To stop that top layer getting too dry/dusty, mix the substrate now n then, which also helps boosting humidity or give the top a spray. Check your monitors and substrate to do the pours as and when needed. I don’t recommend misters or foggers, they get the air too wet and cause respiratory problems.

Humidity for young growing tortoises benefits when maintained around 80%, 24/7, you’ll find that difficult to achieve with an open top, for the set up I’m recommending I’d get a greenhouse cover.

To maintain humidity whilst the tortoise is younger a greenhouse style set up works well and provides more space, the bigger you go the better, it’s ideal if you can build your own base to go as big as you can for the room you have until they’re big enough for outdoors.

If you can’t find an exact fit for your base with the cover, then place it over like the one with the white base in the photo, I’d put lining down under the base and cover though to stop condensate getting on your floor. Bear in mind the ones pictured I don’t think are personally big enough to house this species of tortoise for long, they’re just to give you an idea.

When making your base, just make sure the material is safe, some use flower beds or just make their own, for both these options I’d line with cheap pond liner to protect the base, making sure the liner goes up the sides too and make sure those sides are deep enough to prevent escapes.

Some people even hang their lighting from the greenhouse frame! Simply wrap the wire round so it’s at the height you need(check with temp gun/put thermostat in, 18-21 inches for uv I recommend) then secure with cable ties and chains so they aren’t just hanging by the wire.
I’ve also included examples of stands people make/buy.

I think for the size you’ll need to go, you may struggle to find a topper, in that case you could maybe throw some pvc covering over the stands if you can’t find one, but again if you do that, I’d put lining down under the base to stop condensate.

For a water dish a shallow terracotta saucer large enough for the tortoise to soak in, is considered safest, they have grip in the event your tortoise flips themselves, most pet store options are a known hazard.

Ignore whatever else is in these enclosures in the photos, they’re just to give you an idea, and again these particular ones look too small for the tortoise species imo to last long, but hopefully they help inspire an idea

I’d also always recommend getting your hands on a temp gun, they’re SO handy when setting up a new environment or for checking your monitors are correct

Again I’m so sorry for your loss, I hope this information may help you in the future, take all the time you need, we’ll always be here to help

 

[Dustin]

The tortoise in the photos at the start of this thread was 5 years old?

 

[wellington]

The tortoise in the photos at the start of this thread was 5 years old?

I don't know where you seen that anyone said it was 5 years old. But there is no way it's 5 unless it had been severely neglected.

 

[Dustin]

I don't know where you seen that anyone said it was 5 years old. But there is no way it's 5 unless it had been severely neglected.

post #27

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

I had her for 5 years and though I was doing well but any help on how this could have been prevented would be great information

@wellington this did throw me through a loop too because they look like a hatchling in the photosthey should’ve been 3 times the size for that age?

I don't know where you seen that anyone said it was 5 years old. But there is no way it's 5 unless it had been severely neglected.

Unfortunately I don’t think the tortoise was housed right from a baby, I saw mention of feeding kale but didn’t see anything else mentioned diet wise, if only fed kale for 5+ years, this would explain things toobut perhaps there was more variety that just wasn’t added in their reply.

I doubt op meant any harm and will hopefully take the information on board should they want to own another tortoise

 

[Danajmc]

@wellington this did throw me through a loop too because they look like a hatchling in the photosthey should’ve been 3 times the size for that age?

Unfortunately I don’t think the tortoise was housed right from a baby, I saw mention of feeding kale but didn’t see anything else mentioned diet wise, if only fed kale for 5+ years, this would explain things toobut perhaps there was more variety that just wasn’t added in their reply.

I doubt op meant any harm and will hopefully take the information on board should they want to own another tortoise

This is my biggest fear right hear.. doing harm to (dora now called clyde) without even knowing..

I just thank God I found you guys when I got him...

To think I had him for 3 weeks thinking he was a girl..

 

[Renee_H]

Sorry to say this, but your tortoise appears to have septicemia which is often fatal. You need a good reptile vet to check this animal soon.

Was the bleeding then related to DIC? Human nurse so this is what came to mind.


To the OP, I am so sorry for your loss.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

I'm so sorry for your loss. As Tom said, unfortunately it was too late to do anything

 

[COmtnLady]

In the picture where where the Tortoise is in the cage, on top of some decorative object that looks like a castle or cave, could she have fallen off of that item? It doesn't look like something to have in a tortoise enclosure. It looks as though it is a fall hazard (is taller than your tortoise is long), is made of hard material with some sharp edges so a scraping hazard, and a tipping-over hazard. With the "steps" up to a 90-degree turn, it just seems like a poor design for a tort. It looks like something for a more agile reptile, like a lizard.

The water dish is also empty-looking. Could thirst have been a motivation for getting into the soaking bin?


I'm sorry you lost her. This is a hard thing to go through.

 

[wellington]

@wellington this did throw me through a loop too because they look like a hatchling in the photosthey should’ve been 3 times the size for that age?

Unfortunately I don’t think the tortoise was housed right from a baby, I saw mention of feeding kale but didn’t see anything else mentioned diet wise, if only fed kale for 5+ years, this would explain things toobut perhaps there was more variety that just wasn’t added in their reply.

I doubt op meant any harm and will hopefully take the information on board should they want to own another tortoise

I read thru each one of the OP posts and still never seen that.
Thanks for showing me.
Yes a lot of wrong care and should have been at least 8 inches if not more.

 

[wellington]

post #27

Yeah, some how I totally missed that. A lot was done wrong for it to only be the size in the pics.

 

[Pyro40]

I’m so sorry this happened to you

Unfortunately many people have been in your position where they’ve been sold the wrong kind of starter set ups and equipment, that’s not to say for certain was was the cause, but the right start can definitely go a long way in preventing these kind of things.

I’ll include the information below, but please allow yourself time to grieve, and just come back to it whenever you’re ready should you wish to try again


Basking light should be an incandescent floodlight(example attached) on a 12 hour timer.

Basking temperature directly under the floodlight should be 95-100f. The rest of the enclosure should be ranging 80-85, not dropping lower than 80 night or day, all over.

You may also wish to add ambient lighting on the same timer as the basking light, providing shady areas with hides and such.

If the floodlight isn’t enough to bump up the over enclosure temperature, you could add a CHE(ceramic heat emitter)or two depending on the size you go for, they’re a non light emitting heat bulb that people use to help make heat up/night heat. Again if it’s dropping below the 80’s at night, a CHE is a good idea. Always run any ceramic bulbs on a thermostat, you’ll set the thermostat for around 80, plug the ceramic(s) into the thermostat and plug the thermostat into the mains, it’ll be on 24/7, but the thermostat will only turn on the ceramic(s) if the temperature drops below 80, and will keep them off if the temperature is fine.

Dome fittings do help in projecting the heat down, just make sure to never solely rely on the clamp fittings that can come with them, they can fail, so it’s always best to hang them securely

Any Indoor Uv should be a t5 fluorescent tube, avoid the compact and coil uv bulbs, they don’t give out enough uv and can hurt the tortoises eyes. The uv can be on a 4 hour timer from noon. I’ve attached examples of the two brands to go for and stands people use to mount them. If you’re able to get them out safely for a few hours of natural sunlight, you won’t need this.

With lighting always avoid anything labelled halogen or mercury vapour.

For substrates, either coco coir, dampened and packed down by hand as a base, with a layer of orchid(fir not pine) bark or forest floor on top, or just the orchid bark/forest floor. Never use anything with sand mixed in, no top soils and no kinds of moss. The trouble with top soil is you don’t know what kind of plants have gone into it, they could be toxic. Moss and sand can cause impactions.

You want to aim to have the bottom layer of substrate damp, to do this pour lukewarm water into the corners, not loads but enough to dampen the entire bottom layer. To stop that top layer getting too dry/dusty, mix the substrate now n then, which also helps boosting humidity or give the top a spray. Check your monitors and substrate to do the pours as and when needed. I don’t recommend misters or foggers, they get the air too wet and cause respiratory problems.

Humidity for young growing tortoises benefits when maintained around 80%, 24/7, you’ll find that difficult to achieve with an open top, for the set up I’m recommending I’d get a greenhouse cover.

To maintain humidity whilst the tortoise is younger a greenhouse style set up works well and provides more space, the bigger you go the better, it’s ideal if you can build your own base to go as big as you can for the room you have until they’re big enough for outdoors.

If you can’t find an exact fit for your base with the cover, then place it over like the one with the white base in the photo, I’d put lining down under the base and cover though to stop condensate getting on your floor. Bear in mind the ones pictured I don’t think are personally big enough to house this species of tortoise for long, they’re just to give you an idea.

When making your base, just make sure the material is safe, some use flower beds or just make their own, for both these options I’d line with cheap pond liner to protect the base, making sure the liner goes up the sides too and make sure those sides are deep enough to prevent escapes.

Some people even hang their lighting from the greenhouse frame! Simply wrap the wire round so it’s at the height you need(check with temp gun/put thermostat in, 18-21 inches for uv I recommend) then secure with cable ties and chains so they aren’t just hanging by the wire.
I’ve also included examples of stands people make/buy.

I think for the size you’ll need to go, you may struggle to find a topper, in that case you could maybe throw some pvc covering over the stands if you can’t find one, but again if you do that, I’d put lining down under the base to stop condensate.

For a water dish a shallow terracotta saucer large enough for the tortoise to soak in, is considered safest, they have grip in the event your tortoise flips themselves, most pet store options are a known hazard.

Ignore whatever else is in these enclosures in the photos, they’re just to give you an idea, and again these particular ones look too small for the tortoise species imo to last long, but hopefully they help inspire an idea

I’d also always recommend getting your hands on a temp gun, they’re SO handy when setting up a new environment or for checking your monitors are correct

Again I’m so sorry for your loss, I hope this information may help you in the future, take all the time you need, we’ll always be here to help

I attached some photos as well to help but the temperature in the enclosure never dropped below 80 mostly stayed around 85. The ramp she enjoyed to climb and usually didn’t have standing water, it did in the pics purely from the last misting. She had a UVB bulb and a ceramic heat bulb for continuous heat. She had plenty of hides if she got too hot. The humidity honestly wasn’t really an issue as I live in Indiana and it’s humid as heck here naturally. She was also next to the window where she could enjoy natural light.

Also her shell didn’t show any signs of pyramiding that I saw. And until very recently her stomach was always extremely smooth.

I used Terra cotta dishes as her food and water dishes to help wear down her beak and for her safety.

I only say these things as I had done extensive research (or so I thought) and she had lived happy and healthy for 5 years.

@wellington this did throw me through a loop too because they look like a hatchling in the photosthey should’ve been 3 times the size for that age?

Unfortunately I don’t think the tortoise was housed right from a baby, I saw mention of feeding kale but didn’t see anything else mentioned diet wise, if only fed kale for 5+ years, this would explain things toobut perhaps there was more variety that just wasn’t added in their reply.

I doubt op meant any harm and will hopefully take the information on board should they want to own another tortoise

oh she was fed a variety of greens, kale was just the plant of choice this week. It was always a variety of organic greens along with repticalcium supplements. She would also occasionally get cactus pads and tortoise pellets. She grew from the size of a half dollar when I got her to about the size of my hand in the span I had her?

She had been to the vet previously and always had a clean bill of health.