Need some help with hermanns breeding!

[Mrgeez]

Long post- sorry, but i am in a self inflicted quandary suddenly. I purchased 2 beautiful healthy adult female hermanns last Saturday.

I added a very healthy male yesterday. These are my 1st tortoises. I spent months researching the best practices for keeping them. I struggled thru the lighting requirements, the substrate requirements, heating, and finally what they needed in their diets.

My goal is to have a breeding family.

However, 2 hours after i introduced the male to the family, activities really got rolling. The male, named “O”, relentlessly pursued one of the females. After some “cram” researching, i was confident what they were doing was very normal behavior for a mating pair. The second female actually kinda ran off and hid. I watched “O” try and try to mate. He rode her all over the enclosure, destroying the serene landscape i made for them, which was ok with me.

I know when my horses actually mate, once my stallion is finished, the desire greatly diminishes as the mare gives off the whatever scent or attitude that she is impregnated.

Questions.

How long should i let this mating process go on before separating them? Please excuse me for maybe being uneducated as to the correct terminology or words. How does the female relay to the male that she is done?

I googled this but really don’t understand much that was written about this subject.

 

[Ink]

@Tom should be able to help you.

 

[Tom]

I don't know how to do this indoors in a cold climate. All of what you are trying to do is best accomplished in large outdoor enclosures with lots of sight barriers and hiding spots. That is how I do it.

During this time of year, these animals should still be in brumation. Then when the warmer weather returns, they can go outside into large well planted well designed enclosures. With a proper insulated shelter, they can go out earlier, and stay out later in the year, reducing the length of brumation.

Breeding tortoises is not simply a matter of getting a male and females and putting them together. I suppose in some cases it may be that simple, but usually those animals need time to acclimate to their environment and new surroundings. They need time to get to know their environment and the seasons. Throwing new animals together with no quarantine or acclimation period is likely to lead to combat, stress, and problems.

What you need is the ability to separate these animals when needed. They need large enclosures with lots of hiding places and sight barriers where they can getaway from each other. Some males are just too aggressive about breeding and have to be housed alone, and only put together for brief periods during breeding season. You might need to wait to introduce them when they can be outside in a large 30x30 foot enclosure with lots of bushes, logs, and boulders. It might also help to have another female or two to disperse his attention.

This is a subject that could be talked about for days. I'm short on time at the moment, but questions are welcome. This isn't a subject where a definitive sentence or two will explain it and solve all the problems. Its something that is a long and involved conversation.

 

[Mrgeez]

I don't know how to do this indoors in a cold climate. All of what you are trying to do is best accomplished in large outdoor enclosures with lots of sight barriers and hiding spots. That is how I do it.

During this time of year, these animals should still be in brumation. Then when the warmer weather returns, they can go outside into large well planted well designed enclosures. With a proper insulated shelter, they can go out earlier, and stay out later in the year, reducing the length of brumation.

Breeding tortoises is not simply a matter of getting a male and females and putting them together. I suppose in some cases it may be that simple, but usually those animals need time to acclimate to their environment and new surroundings. They need time to get to know their environment and the seasons. Throwing new animals together with no quarantine or acclimation period is likely to lead to combat, stress, and problems.

What you need is the ability to separate these animals when needed. They need large enclosures with lots of hiding places and sight barriers where they can getaway from each other. Some males are just too aggressive about breeding and have to be housed alone, and only put together for brief periods during breeding season. You might need to wait to introduce them when they can be outside in a large 30x30 foot enclosure with lots of bushes, logs, and boulders. It might also help to have another female or two to disperse his attention.

This is a subject that could be talked about for days. I'm short on time at the moment, but questions are welcome. This isn't a subject where a definitive sentence or two will explain it and solve all the problems. Its something that is a long and involved conversation.

I surely agree with your comments. I just completed an additional semi attached area to my enclosure to separate the male from the 2 females when needed. My question is how long should i let this mating activity proceed before separation?.

 

[Tom]

I surely agree with your comments. I just completed an additional semi attached area to my enclosure to separate the male from the 2 females when needed. My question is how long should i let this mating activity proceed before separation?.

So many variables there. It really depends on how aggressive he's being and how the females are reacting to his advances. In general, better to break up the party too early rather than too late. No harm will come if he's separated from them. Harm may come if not.

 

[Mrgeez]

So many variables there. It really depends on how aggressive he's being and how the females are reacting to his advances. In general, better to break up the party too early rather than too late. No harm will come if he's separated from them. Harm may come if not.

Agreed. I am watching their behavior closely. Where do people get one’s experience in this area of tort keeping? I can separate them now, but when i attempt breeding later, i will still have the same questions. I guess i can scour youtube for some vids on torts aggressive behaviors during mating.

 

[Mrgeez]

So many variables there. It really depends on how aggressive he's being and how the females are reacting to his advances. In general, better to break up the party too early rather than too late. No harm will come if he's separated from them. Harm may come if not.

Do you know if tortoises come into “heat” like animals such as horses and dogs do? I know my horses are on like a 4 week cycle, but when a stallion is introduced, no matter where they are in their monthly cycle, they come into heat in as soon as a day.

 

[Tom]

Agreed. I am watching their behavior closely. Where do people get one’s experience in this area of tort keeping? I can separate them now, but when i attempt breeding later, i will still have the same questions. I guess i can scour youtube for some vids on torts aggressive behaviors during mating.

You get experience by doing it and getting help from people who've done it before you.

YT, FB, vets, breeders, and most sources out there will give you bad info. Most people are just doing it wrong. The list of mistakes is a long one.

Do you know if tortoises come into “heat” like animals such as horses and dogs do? I know my horses are on like a 4 week cycle, but when a stallion is introduced, no matter where they are in their monthly cycle, they come into heat in as soon as a day.

Not much is known about this. I can tell you that the females do have to cooperate at least to some degree, but breeding in a temperate species like this one is typically tied to the seasons. They all brumate in the wild in winter and they wake up ready to go in spring. Depending on the weather and the subspecies, some of them aestivate during the hotter summer days. This limits breeding activity to spring and fall in these individuals.

They do not have to be brumated, but breeding becomes more sporadic, and they tend to be less productive and less predictable when not brumated.

 

[Blastoise]

So I did a similar thing with my Russian tortoises. I let the male live with the two females in Spring but then separate them into separate 6’x4’ enclosures I made with cinder blocks.

The male was only interested in one of the females, and that is the only one that I have successfully bred. I’m not really sure why the other female wasn’t breeding, but I don’t have that one anymore.