New Baby Sulcata-Not active

[Foxyxmulder]

We purchased a baby Sulcata and he arrived via mail cross country yesterday. He was doing ok, not too too active but moving around and going to eat then sleeps. But last night he went in a corner to sleep and since hasn’t been “voluntarily “ active. I moved him into a warm soak but he didn't budget at all in the soak. When I placed him in food dish with fresh greens he just went to sleep and then he moved out of dish(himself) and went back to the corner and went back to sleep…is that super normal or am I doing something incorrectly? He seemed more active yesterday. Would sleep for hour then wake up go eat then wander then sleep. But today, nada. I know he just had a super long trip but I am a paranoid mama.

Humidity is at 40-50 heat at ambient 80 with hotspot of 85-90 from heating element.
UVB (non coil) also available.
Water was warm for soaking with heater under rock
Bedding is coco fibre/cypress mix with hay strewn around.
Greens I have endive, romaine, diced prickly pear cactus and some moistened tortoise blocks.
No top to his inclosure

I am expecting a better heating element (ceramic) tomorrow and a humidifier.

 

[SasquatchTortoise]

I believe humidity needs to be higher
how often do you soak him

 

[Maro2Bear]

Greetings.

Have you seen & read the How to Keep & Raise a Young Sulcata.?

First off, young tortoises like this are pretty scared & first want to hide to keep from being prey.

Try to upload a pix of your enclosure.

Continue to soak daily.

Some Study Material

The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. Babies hatch during the...

www.tortoiseforum.org

 

[Tom]

Hello and welcome. Looks like you've made all of the common mistakes with this species. Hold on tight. I'm going to take you for a wild ride with one interest and one interest only: Helping you get the right information and getting this little one to survive and thrive!

Most of the information on tortoise care from online, FB, YT, pet stores, vets, breeders, and reptile "experts" is all wrong. Most everyone starts out where you are now. I sure did. You did your "research", read all sorts of seemingly credible info, and then made all of the normal mistakes based the mistaken info you found. I'll list your problems first, and then give you the right info.

1. Hay is good for older sulcatas to eat, but babies won't, can't and shouldn't eat it. It will sit there and mold on your properly dampened substrate and it is a hazard. You need to remove all that substrate that is contaminated with hay and replace it.
2. CHEs are for maintaining ambient temps, not for basking. This is best explained here:
There are four elements to heating and lighting:

1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. In most cases you'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night. Some people in colder climates or with larger enclosures will need multiple CHEs or RHPs to spread out enough heat.
3. Ambient light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in LED bulb types are both fine.
4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html A good UV bulb only needs to run for 2-3 hours mid day. You need the basking bulb and the ambient lighting to be on at least 12 hours a day.

3. You cannot maintain the correct heat and humidity with an open top. This species needs hot humid monsoon conditions. That is what they hatch into in the wild, so the cool dry conditions in your house are totally unnatural and unhealthy for them. Having an open top is like trying to heat your house in winter with no roof. Your heater can run all night long, but your house will never warm up correctly because the heat drifts up and out. You need a large closed chamber.
4. That water bowl is a flipping/drowning hazard. Replace it with a terra cotta saucer sunk into the substrate instead.
5. I don't see a linear tube for UV, so it appears that you are using a cfl type UV bulb in one of those fixtures. All of the cfl bulbs are potentially hazardous and none of them should be used. Or maybe you've got a MVB? Those aren't suitable either. See point number 2 above.
6. Your baby needs a humid hide, and he/she needs to be taught to use it by putting the tort in it every night after dark until they get comfortable and begin using it on their own.
7. All of the above is relatively easy to fix. Here comes the bad part that is not fixable: Almost no one starts these babies correctly after hatching. They are cared for and housed all wrong, and it can do permanent unrepairable damage. If you bought one of these dry started babies that was infrequently soaked, kept outside all day, and not kept in a brooder box after hatching, its chances of survival are slim. Some of them pull through, and some don't. All you can do is try and hope for the best. Dry conditions and lack of hydration damage their kidneys and it can't be fixed even for a million dollars. The question is always how much dryness was there and how much damage was or wasn't done. Lethargy and lack of growth are two obvious symptoms. More explained here:

"Hatchling Failure Syndrome"

I've heard this term for many years and I don't like it. Its a way to excuse our ignorance and failure. I will agree that an occasional hatchling is born that is just not going to make it no matter what anybody does, but MOST of them, if they make it full term and hatch, SHOULD survive and...

tortoiseforum.org

Sadly and ignorantly, the new owner is often blamed because the eventual death comes weeks or months after the sale.
8. Humidity needs to be 80+% all the time. Ambient should never drop below 80, even at night, and it should rise to 90 ish during the day with the heat lamp on. This will all dry everything out horribly if not contained in a closed chamber. Under tank heaters should never be used with chelonians because they are not safe. Humidifiers are okay in the room, but should not be blowing their mist directly into the enclosure.

Here is the current and correct care info, and your questions are welcome. I know this is not what you wanted to hear, and probably does not make you feel good, but please consider this: If your tortoise does not survive because no one told you these things, you will feel really really bad and not even know why, probably blaming yourself, and being blamed by others. If me telling you all this helps your tortoise survive and thrive, think how happy you will be as you enjoy your tortoise for years to come.

The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. Babies hatch during the...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[TammyJ]

Hi there! Please read Tom 's advice with care and patience and you will be giving your baby Sulcata the very best chance to thrive in your care.

 

[Maro2Bear]

Yep. What @Tom said. 👍👏🏻👏🏻

 

[Foxyxmulder]

I believe humidity needs to be higher
how often do you soak him

Daily I was told for 10-30 mins

 

[Foxyxmulder]

Hello and welcome. Looks like you've made all of the common mistakes with this species. Hold on tight. I'm going to take you for a wild ride with one interest and one interest only: Helping you get the right information and getting this little one to survive and thrive!

Most of the information on tortoise care from online, FB, YT, pet stores, vets, breeders, and reptile "experts" is all wrong. Most everyone starts out where you are now. I sure did. You did your "research", read all sorts of seemingly credible info, and then made all of the normal mistakes based the mistaken info you found. I'll list your problems first, and then give you the right info.

1. Hay is good for older sulcatas to eat, but babies won't, can't and shouldn't eat it. It will sit there and mold on your properly dampened substrate and it is a hazard. You need to remove all that substrate that is contaminated with hay and replace it.
2. CHEs are for maintaining ambient temps, not for basking. This is best explained here:
There are four elements to heating and lighting:

1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. In most cases you'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night. Some people in colder climates or with larger enclosures will need multiple CHEs or RHPs to spread out enough heat.
3. Ambient light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in LED bulb types are both fine.
4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html A good UV bulb only needs to run for 2-3 hours mid day. You need the basking bulb and the ambient lighting to be on at least 12 hours a day.

3. You cannot maintain the correct heat and humidity with an open top. This species needs hot humid monsoon conditions. That is what they hatch into in the wild, so the cool dry conditions in your house are totally unnatural and unhealthy for them. Having an open top is like trying to heat your house in winter with no roof. Your heater can run all night long, but your house will never warm up correctly because the heat drifts up and out. You need a large closed chamber.
4. That water bowl is a flipping/drowning hazard. Replace it with a terra cotta saucer sunk into the substrate instead.
5. I don't see a linear tube for UV, so it appears that you are using a cfl type UV bulb in one of those fixtures. All of the cfl bulbs are potentially hazardous and none of them should be used. Or maybe you've got a MVB? Those aren't suitable either. See point number 2 above.
6. Your baby needs a humid hide, and he/she needs to be taught to use it by putting the tort in it every night after dark until they get comfortable and begin using it on their own.
7. All of the above is relatively easy to fix. Here comes the bad part that is not fixable: Almost no one starts these babies correctly after hatching. They are cared for and housed all wrong, and it can do permanent unrepairable damage. If you bought one of these dry started babies that was infrequently soaked, kept outside all day, and not kept in a brooder box after hatching, its chances of survival are slim. Some of them pull through, and some don't. All you can do is try and hope for the best. Dry conditions and lack of hydration damage their kidneys and it can't be fixed even for a million dollars. The question is always how much dryness was there and how much damage was or wasn't done. Lethargy and lack of growth are two obvious symptoms. More explained here:

"Hatchling Failure Syndrome"

I've heard this term for many years and I don't like it. Its a way to excuse our ignorance and failure. I will agree that an occasional hatchling is born that is just not going to make it no matter what anybody does, but MOST of them, if they make it full term and hatch, SHOULD survive and...

tortoiseforum.org

Sadly and ignorantly, the new owner is often blamed because the eventual death comes weeks or months after the sale.
8. Humidity needs to be 80+% all the time. Ambient should never drop below 80, even at night, and it should rise to 90 ish during the day with the heat lamp on. This will all dry everything out horribly if not contained in a closed chamber. Under tank heaters should never be used with chelonians because they are not safe. Humidifiers are okay in the room, but should not be blowing their mist directly into the enclosure.

Here is the current and correct care info, and your questions are welcome. I know this is not what you wanted to hear, and probably does not make you feel good, but please consider this: If your tortoise does not survive because no one told you these things, you will feel really really bad and not even know why, probably blaming yourself, and being blamed by others. If me telling you all this helps your tortoise survive and thrive, think how happy you will be as you enjoy your tortoise for years to come.

The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. Babies hatch during the...

tortoiseforum.org

Thank you! Such awesome info. I got little baby from tortoisesupply they have been so nice in helping too. It does seem your right about all the conflicting information!! Ill print out your guide and make adjustments. I think Ill do the MV lamp and go to store today for humid hide and terracotta water bowl (didnt even THINK of that-I paid $17 for the shallowest one I could find 🤦‍♀️)

 

[Maro2Bear]

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