New enclosure advice

[cpl1307]

Hi, ive just moved my 3 year old Horsefield into a much BIGGER Vivarium and he seems to hate it at the moment. I had all his night heating on last night and the room is warm enough, but he wouldn't sleep in his new custom built bed, so I covered him up with the substrate which has gone from coco coir to top soil, which is another change aswell. His arcadia basking bulb is only 50w because in his old set up that was really hot, so I didn't want to overheat the smaller Vivarium I had from him being 6 months old. The new Vivarium is stunning. I want to add some plants, but I never sealed the old viv because I was new, he was getting far to big and restless, so he looks tiny in his new home, but he's sulking. How long do you think it will be until he's happy again. Any suggestions of anything else I could put in it. I want him to roam, so don't want to over do it. Hes just walking round and round it at the moment. Should I increase the bulb to 100w also now?
A couple of pictures are without the doors before he went in, So dont panic! His basking bulb has gone crooked. I will buy him a new one!

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hello!

He should settle down in a couple of weeks.

1. Thermometer should tell you if you need higher wattage basking bulb. Leave the probe (or the thermometer itself if it has no external probe) for an hour or two. And check the readings. Aim for 95F.

2. I feel like changing substrate from coco coir to top soil wasn't a good idea. Looks like that soil has some perlite or small stones - this stuff can be lethal when ingested (voluntary or with food). Also, substrate looks dry. 3 y.o. Russian tortoise doesn't need high humidity but 40-60% across the viv are the good numbers.

3. You are on the right track with adding enrichment to the viv, be it live plants, some tunnels or sight barriers. You can use terracotta plant pot halves buried in substrate, cork bark or logs, wooden garden bed fences and hills of substrate to make enclosure more interesting.

4. The new viv doesn't look very large. Is it 120 gallon (4x2x2)?

 

[cpl1307]

Hello!

He should settle down in a couple of weeks.

1. Thermometer should tell you if you need higher wattage basking bulb. Leave the probe (or the thermometer itself if it has no external probe) for an hour or two. And check the readings. Aim for 95F.

2. I feel like changing substrate from coco coir to top soil wasn't a good idea. Looks like that soil has some perlite or small stones - this stuff can be lethal when ingested (voluntary or with food). Also, substrate looks dry. 3 y.o. Russian tortoise doesn't need high humidity but 40-60% across the viv are the good numbers.

3. You are on the right track with adding enrichment to the viv, be it live plants, some tunnels or sight barriers. You can use terracotta plant pot halves buried in substrate, cork bark or logs, wooden garden bed fences and hills of substrate to make enclosure more interesting.

4. The new viv doesn't look very large. Is it 120 gallon (4x2x2)?

Thank you for replying. It 48"24x24. The humidity is 70 and the heat is spot on aswell. Hes just pacing and pacing. He's only 3, but grown quite fast. I will get him a bigger one and when the summer comes he can go outside. My first enclosure was physically falling apart. I never knew anything about sealing it with silicone, though I did line the bottom, but he just dug it up. Should I put coco coir back in? It's the pacing I don't like. Last night he wouldn't sleep in his cave so I literally buried his whole shell, apart from his head and he had his CHE Above him. Which I never use as the room is always above 15oc UK. I would let him out, as the room is completely secure and he comes out everyday, when I'm in there with him, but then I'm just defeating the object and delaying the process. As soon as he sees or hears me he goes crazy at the glass.

 

[cpl1307]

Hello!

He should settle down in a couple of weeks.

1. Thermometer should tell you if you need higher wattage basking bulb. Leave the probe (or the thermometer itself if it has no external probe) for an hour or two. And check the readings. Aim for 95F.

2. I feel like changing substrate from coco coir to top soil wasn't a good idea. Looks like that soil has some perlite or small stones - this stuff can be lethal when ingested (voluntary or with food). Also, substrate looks dry. 3 y.o. Russian tortoise doesn't need high humidity but 40-60% across the viv are the good numbers.

3. You are on the right track with adding enrichment to the viv, be it live plants, some tunnels or sight barriers. You can use terracotta plant pot halves buried in substrate, cork bark or logs, wooden garden bed fences and hills of substrate to make enclosure more interesting.

4. The new viv doesn't look very large. Is it 120 gallon (4x2x2)?

It's ProRep Tortoise Life Substrate. It was the tortoise rescue and reptile centre that told me to use it. I will attach a picture of the back of it were it says its designed for Russian tortoises, but the picture until clear, but you should be able to see it.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

It's ProRep Tortoise Life Substrate. It was the tortoise rescue and reptile centre that told me to use it. I will attach a picture of the back of it were it says its designed for Russian tortoises, but the picture until clear, but you should be able to see it.

Yes, I know this one. It's the popular option, however I don't like it:
1. Gets really dusty when dries out and messy and muddy when wet.
2. Small chunks of limestone are good in theory but for captive tortoises encouraging eating substrate is a bad idea.

Surprisingly, substrate resembling native habitat of Russian tortoises is working badly in captive settings. Perhaps, because a lot of other factors are missing: food don't grow firmly in the ground but can be dragged around, rains don't rinse dust particles, amount of exercise required for moving food in the intestines is magnitudes lower than in the wild, food itself has much less fiber and calcium than wild growing weeds etc.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Thank you for replying. It 48"24x24. The humidity is 70 and the heat is spot on aswell. Hes just pacing and pacing. He's only 3, but grown quite fast. I will get him a bigger one and when the summer comes he can go outside. My first enclosure was physically falling apart. I never knew anything about sealing it with silicone, though I did line the bottom, but he just dug it up. Should I put coco coir back in? It's the pacing I don't like. Last night he wouldn't sleep in his cave so I literally buried his whole shell, apart from his head and he had his CHE Above him. Which I never use as the room is always above 15oc UK. I would let him out, as the room is completely secure and he comes out everyday, when I'm in there with him, but then I'm just defeating the object and delaying the process. As soon as he sees or hears me he goes crazy at the glass.

Levels sound good, but I’m in agreement with Alex about the substrate, you want to avoid stuff like that even if it’s marketed towards tortoises, it can cause known issues in captivity. Coco coir or orchid bark is your best bet, seeing as he’s settling I’d put coir back in yes.

It sounds like stress from a new move, but I will say at his age and size he does ideally need to go bigger, too small a space could contribute to him becoming quite restless.

I’m not sure if I’ve ever passed this one on to you? But there’s some visuals and mention of the ideal sizing to go for an adult Russian

Housing adult Russian and Hermans indoors

Hello there! In this thread I’m going to include some information an example of an appropriate indoor set up for an older Herman/russian. As much as it’s encouraged to have tortoises in a safe outdoor enclosure, I understand being from the uk myself, that some climates make it difficult to...

tortoiseforum.org

This includes lots of inspiration for an adult set up both indoors and out! The indoor bit has some good ideas to tackle indoor space whilst still providing the needed roaming room! Check comments too, I’m always adding to it. I know the recommended adult size is intimidating to some, especially if you’ve been lead into thinking he’ll be fine in a smaller set up(very common) but tortoises long term health really does rely on lots of roaming room. If you’re unable to go that big, perhaps at some point you could add onto this one?

Enclosure inspiration

Howdy folks! Hope everyone is well! As you all know, I’m a big fan of making threads that cater more towards visual learners like myself, I’ve really been wanting to create a thread full of adult enclosure inspiration for a while now, I’ve managed to find some great references over time! I do...

tortoiseforum.org

Hope they help and you like them! I think ultimately he needs time to settle

 

[cpl1307]

Levels sound good, but I’m in agreement with Alex about the substrate, you want to avoid stuff like that even if it’s marketed towards tortoises, it can cause known issues in captivity. Coco coir or orchid bark is your best bet, seeing as he’s settling I’d put coir back in yes.

It sounds like stress from a new move, but I will say at his age and size he does ideally need to go bigger, too small a space could contribute to him becoming quite restless.

I’m not sure if I’ve ever passed this one on to you? But there’s some visuals and mention of the ideal sizing to go for an adult Russian

Housing adult Russian and Hermans indoors

Hello there! In this thread I’m going to include some information an example of an appropriate indoor set up for an older Herman/russian. As much as it’s encouraged to have tortoises in a safe outdoor enclosure, I understand being from the uk myself, that some climates make it difficult to...

tortoiseforum.org

This includes lots of inspiration for an adult set up both indoors and out! The indoor bit has some good ideas to tackle indoor space whilst still providing the needed roaming room! Check comments too, I’m always adding to it. I know the recommended adult size is intimidating to some, especially if you’ve been lead into thinking he’ll be fine in a smaller set up(very common) but tortoises long term health really does rely on lots of roaming room. If you’re unable to go that big, perhaps at some point you could add onto this one?

Enclosure inspiration

Howdy folks! Hope everyone is well! As you all know, I’m a big fan of making threads that cater more towards visual learners like myself, I’ve really been wanting to create a thread full of adult enclosure inspiration for a while now, I’ve managed to find some great references over time! I do...

tortoiseforum.org

Hope they help and you like them! I think ultimately he needs time to settle

Thank you!! I do want bigger, but everything in this country has just shot up in price, so I bought this on credit and his old one was smaller and he was the happiest tortoise you could know. Your last sentence is my exact plan. I want to build onto it. I could have orchid bark here tomorrow, so do you think that's what I should do? I could order that now.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

I think he will stop pacing around when you add more items to keep him busy and secure in the enclosure and he will get used to it.

The second thing, he knows that you can let him roam the room. This practice is highly discouraged (you've been on the forum for a while, so I won't repeat the reasons). However, unless you have a large enough enclosure breaking this habit is barely possible. The good news is that you can use open top enclosures and they are cheaper to buy or easier to build your own.

 

[cpl1307]

Yes, I know this one. It's the popular option, however I don't like it:
1. Gets really dusty when dries out and messy and muddy when wet.
2. Small chunks of limestone are good in theory but for captive tortoises encouraging eating substrate is a bad idea.

Surprisingly, substrate resembling native habitat of Russian tortoises is working badly in captive settings. Perhaps, because a lot of other factors are missing: food don't grow firmly in the ground but can be dragged around, rains don't rinse dust particles, amount of exercise required for moving food in the intestines is magnitudes lower than in the wild, food itself has much less fiber and calcium than wild growing weeds etc.

Your not kidding about the the mess. Its only been 24 hours and my perfect sliding doors are now dragging on a layer of sand. I only changed because the coco rotted my old set up.

 

[cpl1307]

I think he will stop pacing around when you add more items to keep him busy and secure in the enclosure and he will get used to it.

The second thing, he knows that you can let him roam the room. This practice is highly discouraged (you've been on the forum for a while, so I won't repeat the reasons). However, unless you have a large enough enclosure breaking this habit is barely possible. The good news is that you can use open top enclosures and they are cheaper to buy or easier to build your own.

No, I knew it was wrong and it went from once in a while to more and more, so I've made a rod for my own back. I do know the reasons and I should of known better. I just enjoyed watching him explore. But it's now backfiring for not listening. I'm going to break that habit. I used to just open his door wide and place a rectangle piece of mesh cut to size so he couldn't fall out but but smell the room and look out without the glass. I'm frustrated with myself believe me

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Your not kidding about the the mess. Its only been 24 hours and my perfect sliding doors are now dragging on a layer of sand. I only changed because the coco rotted my old set up.

Also, this dust will settle on the UVB lamp greatly affecting the output.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

No, I knew it was wrong and it went from once in a while to more and more, so I've made a rod for my own back. I do know the reasons and I should of known better. I just enjoyed watching him explore. But it's now backfiring for not listening. I'm going to break that habit. I used to just open his door wide and place a rectangle piece of mesh cut to size so he couldn't fall out but but smell the room and look out without the glass. I'm frustrated with myself believe me

Don't blame yourself. We all try to do the best. And yes, I know that feeling, when your tortoise explores The World And their cute sad face when they want out

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Would it be possible to put the viv in a space you can build a barrier around? You could put lining down(quite cheap off Amazon) and put substrate on top, then maybe make a stand you could put a basking bulb over the area, might make for a more comfortable safe space he can roam, could have a little ramp from the viv? Then you close him in the viv at night. Might help pacify that wanderlust behaviour lol

 

[Tom]

Good advice from other posters so far. I would add that this enclosure is the size that the six month old should have been in. You need four of these enclosures to make the foot print that your tortoise needs now. 122x244cm. This is part of the reason for his restlessness. The enclosure is far too small.

The coco coir didn't rot your last enclosure, the moisture did. This moisture is necessary with any substrate.

The recommendation of that substrate is a clear indicator that the tortoise rescue and reptile centre are giving bad advice and do not know the proper way to care for tortoises. This is very common. It's the same over here. Vets, breeders, "reptile experts", YT, FB and most other sources all give the same wrong care info and recommend the same wrong tortoise products. Its sad, but be glad you have found the correct care info here with us.

 

[cpl1307]

Also, this dust will settle on the UVB lamp greatly affecting the output.

I didn't even know that could happen. Honestly, it's the worst substrate I've ever had. Ive cleaned it off the carpet over and over. The limestone you mentioned have scratched my new glass doors from him scratching at it to get out. Its a nightmare Alex! Clumped up hard, like you mentioned when he keeps walking into his water while pacing like you said, also. Its horrible stuff. Ive even ordered 2 more bags of it due tomorrow because it didn't fill it. But it's from amazon, so hopefully I can just return it. I just wish I hadn't taken my old set up down because I would just put him back in there until the right substrate in. Ive managed to settle him by putting in his old hide. Its in bad shape, But he loved it and as soon as I put that in he went straight in it and hasn't been out now since and his lights have just gone off, so perfect timing. I just need him to stay in there until Tuesday. That's the quickest I could get his substrate delivered. Ive got some glass adhesive coming in the morning, so I will cut that as high as I can. So he can still see out, but not scratch the glass anymore. You just stick it on with water. A bit like the window frosted looking wallpaper, but plastic and not toxic

 

[cpl1307]

Don't blame yourself. We all try to do the best. And yes, I know that feeling, when your tortoise explores The World And their cute sad face when they want out

Omg! That's an adorable face!!

 

[cpl1307]

Good advice from other posters so far. I would add that this enclosure is the size that the six month old should have been in. You need four of these enclosures to make the foot print that your tortoise needs now. 122x244cm. This is part of the reason for his restlessness. The enclosure is far too small.

The coco coir didn't rot your last enclosure, the moisture did. This moisture is necessary with any substrate.

The recommendation of that substrate is a clear indicator that the tortoise rescue and reptile centre are giving bad advice and do not know the proper way to care for tortoises. This is very common. It's the same over here. Vets, breeders, "reptile experts", YT, FB and most other sources all give the same wrong care info and recommend the same wrong tortoise products. Its sad, but be glad you have found the correct care info here with us.

Exactly! Tom it's the worse substrate I've ever used. Its all over the floor. The limestone in it has scratched my new glass where he has had it stuck to his feet and clawed at the glass! It's clumped up were its got wet! It's dusty. It's just everywhere and yeah your totally right. It's the humidity and moisture thsts needed, but "luckily" fingers it will last a bit longer this time. I've siliconed and I mean really siliconed it! Lined the bottom, then siliconed it in place and then repeated the process again. My plan is to build onto it. I dont want this one on a stand. I'm going to build some small stumpy legs for it and I will build the rest. I didnt even realise how much damage the moisture had done until I actually emptied it. I mean huge holes. That I didn't even know where there. I wanted to replace it along time ago, but prices in the UK have rocketed!, but ive got plenty of wood to make this a really good size. His outdoor enclosure is huge, but it's still freezing outside, but not long now. I can see buds forming on my hibiscus trees and the birds checking my boxes out, so not long now!

 

[cpl1307]

Would it be possible to put the viv in a space you can build a barrier around? You could put lining down(quite cheap off Amazon) and put substrate on top, then maybe make a stand you could put a basking bulb over the area, might make for a more comfortable safe space he can roam, could have a little ramp from the viv? Then you close him in the viv at night. Might help pacify that wanderlust behaviour lol

I've honestly just replied to tom about keeping this enclosure low to the floor and building onto it and what you have just said is a really good idea! I've even already got the lining for it! Thank you for that. I would never of thought of doing something like that and I have the room to do it. Thank you that!

 

[cpl1307]

Thank you all your your invaluable advice! So many good ideas that are simple, but I would never think of. I over complicate my thinking, when the simplest ideas are the best! It will be out by Tuesday. That's the quickest I can get my replacement delivered. I've just put his old hide in and he went straight into it and buried himself and hasn't been out since. If only he could live in there until Tuesday. But I'm gonna put some frosted glass transfers over the bottom section of his glass to protect it. I was gutted about the scratches. The sand in the floor every hour I can deal with, but scratched glass on a new viv has depressed me, but live and learn.

 

[cpl1307]

I've honestly just replied to tom about keeping this enclosure low to the floor and building onto it and what you have just said is a really good idea! I've even already got the lining for it! Thank you for that. I would never of thought of doing something like that and I have the room to do it. Thank you that!

I ssid " Thank you for that" alot, when I replied. I've just noticed!, but thsnk you for that!