New Enclosure, want opinions!

[cdub2007]

Hello,

New to the forums and to keeping tortoises!

I have a couple of turtles, a RES that is 10yrs old and a baby Painted that's less than a year.

I am preparing to add two baby cherry heads to our family and I'm working on getting everything together before they arrive.

I've done a lot of research and I think I have it in a good place but just want to be sure there isn't any obvious misses.

The two things that I'm a little weary on are the height of my UVB, I don't want it to be too bright. And then having a basking spot. I have a CHE but I'm afraid if I bump it up to 95 for basking it will bump the whole enclosure up and not give them a gradient of temp.

I attached a few pictures of what I currently have.

 

[wellington]

Unfortunately you have gotten some bad info. Tortoises should never be housed in pairs. Either only get one or make another enclosure. You could also buy three and hope for all females. However, if they were all males, or two males, they'd all need to be housed separately.
Second is remove all moss. It's an entanglement hazard inside and out and can cause impactions.
Third, the water dish is a drowning and flipping hazard. You need a low sided clay saucer.
Humidifiers/misters are not recommended and not needed in closed chambers. They are a health Hazzard.
Pour warm water into the corners for humidity and to keep top layer dry.
The uvb should have recommended height on the package. The only real way to know if it's close enough is with a UV meter.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Hello and welcome!

Quite a few things of note, first being tortoise of any species should NEVER be housed in pairs under any circumstances, they’re incredibly territorial, behaviours that look cute to us really aren’t, following one another and sleeping huddled up is all bullying the the tortoise world, you’ll eventually see more extreme signs of aggression. Anyone who tells you pairs are fine, have no idea what they’re talking about.

Whilst red foots are technically more tolerant of company, it still needs to be a group with the correct female to male ratio and lots of land.

Next up your temperatures, red foots don’t need a basking spot and 95 is very hot for them, they’re much more active in temperature ranges of 80-86. This needs to be 24/7, no night drop.

CHE’s(ceramic heat emitters) are much more suited to red foots and far less desiccating on their shells. They need running on a thermostat.

Next up, all that moss needs to go! As mentioned above it can cause impactions.

Humidifiers/foggers are also a no go, they can cause respiratory problems and only focus on the top layers getting damp, red foots are prone to fungal injections so this isn’t ideal at all.

I think you’ll find this thread really useful to read, it covers correct equipment(ie lighting&heating), correct levels, appropriately maintaining humidity, lots of visual examples for everything and a good diet list to check out

Young red foot/ cherryhead set up

Hello there! In this thread I’m going to include some information on an effective example of a starter enclosure for a red foot/cherry head😊 Care advice for these guys is painfully behind, fb pages, YouTube, pet stores, they’re all repeating the same outdated advice, this forum is made of...

tortoiseforum.org

This one will also be really good to familiarise yourself with, it goes more in depth on the points raised, as well as helping you avoid the wrong bulbs, substrates, housing etc, I encourage you to double check purchases here too! Pet shops have no clue

Common keeping errors

Hello everyone! I’d been a long time lurker on this site long before joining just under a year ago now, over that time I’ve seen these husbandry issues come up time and time again, sometimes with dire consequences☹️ I thought this thread might serve as a good visual guide for these common...

tortoiseforum.org

Please give them both a read and come back with any further questions!

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Also please stick to this forum as your only source of information! It’s clear that unfortunately your research elsewhere has resulted in lots of common mistakes, don’t feel bad, this happens a lot!

Bear in mind red foots don’t need a gradient typical with most tortoises.

With the uv timing, every other source of information will tell you 12hours of uv. This is essentially an old fashioned rule that has stuck with a lot of keepers, it stems from the presumption that once the basking light or ambient lighting is on, ie the ‘sun’, that uv must coexist the same amount of hours. Fact is, uv rays only peak for a few hours a day, anyone with a uv meter will confirm this. No tortoise is blasted with 12 hours of uv in the wild, therefore it’s not necessary in captivity. Especially red foots who are forest floor dwellers.
The uv bulbs are much more expensive to replace once their uv strength diminishes, so it’s definitely best having it on a 4 hour timer that provides them with all the uv they need, saving your bulb life.
Then some cheaper led lighting for your ambient 12 hour light cycle, your ceramics will run 24/7 on a thermostat, hope that all makes sense

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

I am also noticing considering the cover and fogger, humidity is still too low, which could be that the set up isn’t ’closed’ enough. High humidity is important for babies and red foot’s are a very humid species

 

[cdub2007]

Thanks for the replies and links, I really appreciate all the help! I want to make sure I get this right and there is a lot of contradicting info out there.

I kind of just went into the post pretty generally, I should have pointed out the specifics that I have.

Agreed about the dish, that was something I was still brainstorming on, I was conscience of that, it was meant to be a soak, but it is deep, thinking of putting something in the bottom of it to make it more shallow or just completely replace since it is kind of big around and takes up a lot of space.

The current temps are around 80-85, I have a CHE on a thermostat, thought it was noticeable in the screen shots. Humidity is around 74-80. I have a spray bottle that I plan to spray a couple times a day as well as spread some water around. The humidify is also set on to auto run for limited times a day. It comes in right next to the CHE which I think evaporates a some of it. I have heard that it can cause problems but I have also seen a lot of successes with that method as well.

The moss is another thing that I have heard both, that its important to use it for humidity, but if they eat it then its best to take it out. But I have seen a lot of babies liking to burrow in it. The substrate, is a bag of coir, a brick of coir that I expanded, and then a bag of reptisoil, and a few handfuls of coconut husk all mixed up. Depending on the spot, it is anywhere from 3-4.5 inches deep.

I have also heard some say they do and dont need a "hot" spot that is 5 degrees higher than the rest of the enclosure, honestly for my setup it would be better I didnt need that.

I will for sure add more things such as plants, most likely fake, and other hide like structures.

I am getting two babies that were born early September. I was not anticipating any kind of "aggression" until they are sexually mature as I would imagine they have nothing to be territorially over, no breeding happening and plenty of food. I also wont know the sexes of them until they are older and will monitor them until then and separate if necessary. I work from home so I will be watching them constantly lol.

The only other thing is I have heard of it being to bright and with my light being so big there isnt currently a lot of hiding from it, so just didnt know if I should raise it or if I just add some more thing in there to hide is good enough.

Thanks again everyone!!

 

[cdub2007]

Sorry I just typed that all up and missed your last two posts lol

 

[cdub2007]

Should I even worry about a soaking dish, separate from their water dish? Or just take them out when they need to soak?

 

[cdub2007]

And humidity I have seen as wide a range as anywhere between 70-90 percent, and some say never below 80%

 

[wellington]

If you forget all the info you have found outside this forum, you will see it's much easier and correct
The moss is dangerous and is not needed for humidity. The humidifier is dangerous and not needed for humidity.
The soaking dish is dangerous and not needed inside the enclosure. A low sided clay saucer that is big enough around for him to fit into us needed so he can self soak if he wants but is mainly for drinking. You should take him out and use a different container to give warm soaks. You can give warm soaks inside the enclosure but the soak container should not be left in the enclosure when not giving a soak.

 

[cdub2007]

Understood, I guess my question would be then,

If I take out big water, I take out humidifier, and I take out moss, literally what will keep any moisture in there? Because people also are always saying to not spray too much on the soil so you don't cause shell rot and mold.

I guess I will keep workshopping different methods and see what I can get to work. I still have some time before they arrive.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Thanks for the replies and links, I really appreciate all the help! I want to make sure I get this right and there is a lot of contradicting info out there.

I kind of just went into the post pretty generally, I should have pointed out the specifics that I have.

Agreed about the dish, that was something I was still brainstorming on, I was conscience of that, it was meant to be a soak, but it is deep, thinking of putting something in the bottom of it to make it more shallow or just completely replace since it is kind of big around and takes up a lot of space.

The current temps are around 80-85, I have a CHE on a thermostat, thought it was noticeable in the screen shots. Humidity is around 74-80. I have a spray bottle that I plan to spray a couple times a day as well as spread some water around. The humidify is also set on to auto run for limited times a day. It comes in right next to the CHE which I think evaporates a some of it. I have heard that it can cause problems but I have also seen a lot of successes with that method as well.

The moss is another thing that I have heard both, that its important to use it for humidity, but if they eat it then its best to take it out. But I have seen a lot of babies liking to burrow in it. The substrate, is a bag of coir, a brick of coir that I expanded, and then a bag of reptisoil, and a few handfuls of coconut husk all mixed up. Depending on the spot, it is anywhere from 3-4.5 inches deep.

I have also heard some say they do and dont need a "hot" spot that is 5 degrees higher than the rest of the enclosure, honestly for my setup it would be better I didnt need that.

I will for sure add more things such as plants, most likely fake, and other hide like structures.

I am getting two babies that were born early September. I was not anticipating any kind of "aggression" until they are sexually mature as I would imagine they have nothing to be territorially over, no breeding happening and plenty of food. I also wont know the sexes of them until they are older and will monitor them until then and separate if necessary. I work from home so I will be watching them constantly lol.

The only other thing is I have heard of it being to bright and with my light being so big there isnt currently a lot of hiding from it, so just didnt know if I should raise it or if I just add some more thing in there to hide is good enough.

Thanks again everyone!!

There is lots and lots of contracting information out there yes! It’s incredibly frustrating, but let me tell you, I’m speaking from experience, all it will do is cause you confusion! Don’t be swayed by outside sources! We’ve seen time and time again on the forum the consequences of moss, reptisoils, husk, humidifiers and more, other sources are following lots of outdated and incorrect care information, this forum is made of members who have been raising all kinds of species for decades, and through trial and error, have perfected their care for raising healthy smooth tortoises long term. There’s no better place for the most up to date care information!

Yeah I’d personally replace the dish for a shallow terracotta saucer.

Temps sound pretty good. Humidity you want more in the 80-85 range, spraying also isn’t a great way to upkeep the humidity, as again it focuses on the top layer being constantly damp, it also doesn’t last as long. In a good maintained closed chamber, a humidifier is completely unnecessary and poses a risk to their health.

Safest substrate options are coco coir, orchid fir bark or forest floor/cypress mulch. I’d get it switched up.

I wouldn’t get the two unless you plan on a 3rd the same size/age in a few years and factor in what sex they end up. Still, during their vital growing stage, the stress of living in a pair dynamic(which doesn’t work for tortoises no matter the species) might cause stunting for one, whilst yes they are far less ‘aggressive’ as babies, they can still feel the competition of being in a pair, they don’t have the reasoning to understand there’s no need to compete for the resources at hand.

What kind of light is it you’re using?

Understood, I guess my question would be then,

If I take out big water, I take out humidifier, and I take out moss, literally what will keep any moisture in there? Because people also are always saying to not spray too much on the soil so you don't cause shell rot and mold.

I guess I will keep workshopping different methods and see what I can get to work. I still have some time before they arrive.

If you go over the first thread it will hopefully make more sense to you, the lukewarm water pours keeping the bottom layers of your substrate damp is where the moisture and humidity is coming from, which will only work with the enclosure being well sealed in.

I wouldn’t workshop ways that are known to cause issues even if they create the environmental readings you need, there’s reasons behind everything we recommend against on here and just want as many people to have a positive a keeping experience as possible!